[lit-ideas] Re: Irene/Andy's scenario and a challenge back to her

  • From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:45:47 -0500

I didn't feel I was being abused.  I said you were being abusive.  What was the 
lonely, wrong side of the bed about?  What did it have to do with the 
discussion?  The rest of this is too long to plow through.  Obviously, if you 
could answer the question you would have.

For John, the only difference in the "X" (being adult or child as the topic 
under discussion) is one of degree.  It's much worse for the child because the 
adult can say, he's a jerk.  The child will say, I'm a jerk, that's why they're 
hitting me.  Plus the child HAS to "love" the hitter, because the hitter is his 
lifeline.  That's why he'll take the blame.  If the world (his hitter) is 
crazy, the child is really dead (it's how children think; they're egocentric to 
the nth degree).  It's a matter of survival.  Verbal abuse (you're stupid, 
lazy, etc.) works the same way.  In some ways it's even worse.    

----- Original Message ----- 
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 2/17/2006 9:29:15 AM 
Subject: [lit-ideas] Irene/Andy's scenario and a challenge back to her

In a message dated 2/17/2006 7:54:06 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
If you didn't want to do something that your boss
told you to do, and your boss saw your reluctance, and walked up to you and
hit you (gently mind you) and said do it or you get more of the same, how
would you feel?  Would you not prefer that your boss said, John, I see you
really don't want to do this.  Want to talk about it?  How would you feel
about your boss (and about yourself) after scenario 1 and after scenario 2?
Throw into the mix that you really had to have that job, you couldn't go
anywhere else.

HI, Irene,

I am so sorry that you feel that you were being abused.  (I did NOT hit her, I 
did NOT!!  I did not take that red-eye flight and find her and smack her!  I 
did NOT!)

In fact, I was simply trying to explain in a very matter-of-fact way that I do 
NOT advocated spanking or hitting.

I was just trying to explain that there is a difference between bruising a 
child and leaving no marks.  Did not say that either was 'okay'.  (was 
evaluating, not making a judgement, in fact--but will and have often made that 
as a judgement--and I rarely do make judgements)

No, if I was really being abusive...or if I even wanted or thought you needed 
to be 'disciplined' for not reading or paying attention to what I wrote, I 
would be a bit more creative.

For example, perhaps I'd do what I have done to the kids who spent the night 
over here last year during a time when we had about five boys here and who 
disappeared down the street without telling any of the other kids or myself 
where they were going.

I found them.  They got a lecture about respect, about behaving when they are 
at someone else's house.  and, they got to run around the house ten times. 
(They were full of energy--boys of a certain age, after all--)  Let the 
'punishment' fit the 'crime'.  It wore them out and then the other boys turned 
it into a game.  Still--have they ever done that again?  No.  Will they think 
about it if they ever decide to just take off (on a race, to see if one of the 
other kids that they know lives in the neighborhood is home and would like to 
join the party, etc etc)  Yes.  Did they end up laughing afterwards?  Yes.  

Now, I did not lay a hand on either of them (though I was so scared for them 
that my wits had also left the building) but they were disciplined.

As to your comments...<g>...well, as one who loves to look at management 
theories, I will totally enjoy looking at your questions.  (But I do have to go 
to work...)

and, I will also entertain the Dale Carnegie guy who is teaching a class on 
Leadership and Management with the same principles. I'm in the process of 
taking that class with some others and it will entertain us all to brainstorm 
about what we would do...

and, I am supposing you want us to presume that I live in a country where 
assault is legal?  Because if a boss (or anyone but your own kid) hits you in 
this area, it is called assault.  

Because, believe me, there are lots of business sorts of situations where 
employees definitely feel that they have been 'smacked' down or disrespected by 
bosses--there are gobs of pieces of material out there which talk about how to 
deal with it--GenY will simply get another job but there are lots of people in 
my world who don't have that option (for various reasons) and I often discuss 
with them alternative methods of dealing with the situation when they have to 
stay in what seems to be an untenable horrible working situation.

What about you?

Will you answer MY questions? (I did ask you first...)

What would you do if your child simply told you 'no, I'm not going to school 
and you cannot make me'.  and refused to stay in time out, simply got up and 
got whatever you took away from me (or destroyed something that you held dear 
in retaliation).  How would you get that child to school?   Would you have been 
the parent wringing her hand and calling 9-1-1?

What if your child began to beat you--calling your horrible names, and more.  
What would you do?  You could not legally lock her out--you'd get thrown into 
jail and though you'd get away from her, you'd have another set of problems to 
deal with...

What would you do?  How would you handle that situation?

I've got to run now, but I have a kind of different sort of day as I'm having a 
long lunch with the sister of the wife of the guy who died -- supporting the 
support system, so to speak, and I've got time to answer in a little while.  

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