>>>>>>>>>>>.. There is a fine point here that you and Simon seem to take comfort in, that I'm not quite following, namely that it is the flag on the pin that is to be prohibited and not the flag itself, but surely Owers wouldn't allow the flag if she prohibited the flag on the pin. The people who want to ban the flag on the pin also want to ban the flag itself. I saw several articles to that effect. Here is an interesting discussion on Dhimmi Watch: >>>>>>>>>>>>> we responded, Lawrence, to LH/Steyn>You'd be surprised how quickly the question of what flag >should fly over government buildings can be an issue plus LH>2005, Anne Owers, Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons, LH>banned the flying of the English national flag in English prisons pointing out that the issue was not what flag should fly over public buildings and (in my case) that in any event the Union flag ("Union Jack") is the appropriate flag, not the St George's Cross. LH>Here is an interesting discussion on Dhimmi Watch: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008420.php the "interesting discussion", Lawrence, is a repetition of (most of?) the cnn story I posted in my reply to you (plus comments); I quote JE>3. what actually happened is shown here >http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/ index what does the story contain that supports your >The people who want to ban the flag on the pin also want to ban the flag itself. ? I quote "Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an insensitive reminder of the Crusades. "A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode in our history," he told CNN. "They see those campaigns as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam. "Muslim or Arab prisoners could take umbrage if staff wore a red cross badge. It's also got associations with the far-right. Prison officers should be seen to be neutral." Doyle added that it was now time for England to find a new flag and a patron saint who is "not associated with our bloody past and one we can all identify with."" plus comments from readers who don't agree with Doyle. I quote one part of one comment >The cross should remain on the Union Jack no-one's suggested it shouldn't -- have they? LH> I saw several articles to that effect. citations, please. Judy Evans, Cardiff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Iran outraged by Hollywood war epic There is a fine point here that you and Simon seem to take comfort in, that I'm not quite following, namely that it is the flag on the pin that is to be prohibited and not the flag itself, but surely Owers wouldn't allow the flag if she prohibited the flag on the pin. The people who want to ban the flag on the pin also want to ban the flag itself. I saw several articles to that effect. Here is an interesting discussion on Dhimmi Watch: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008420.php Lawrence ------------Original Message------------ From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, Mar-14-2007 11:17 AM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Iran outraged by Hollywood war epic >>>>>>>>> In 2005, Anne Owers, Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons, banned the flying of the English national flag in English prisons on the grounds that it shows the cross of St. George, which was used by the Crusaders and so is offensive to Muslims <<<<<<<<< 1. the national flags are different, qua symbols, from the US flag, i.e. not held in particularly high regard 2. I have no idea whether prisons here fly flags but if so the Union flag, I'd have thought, would be flown, not the St George's Cross. 3. what actually happened is shown here http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/index.html DVLA policy is presumably similar i.e. presumably individual staff there are not allowed to wear national flag badges. 4. (I see I didn't post about this) English Muslim football fans paint their faces with the St George's Cross when supporting the team. (Welsh ones of course wear the Welsh colours, Scottish ones, the Scottish cross.) 5. >>>>>>>>>> "So Britain's already crept a little way toward the Spectator's allegedly as-kooky-as-men-from-Mars scenario: the old flag's unflyable <<<<<<<<<<< Nope. The Union flag ("Union Jack") is normally no problem. The English flag can be because of its association with the British National Party, but it is flown. Steyn does know a bit about Britain so is presumably being disingenuous Judy Evans, Cardiff ----------------------------------------------------------------- - To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html