[lit-ideas] Re: Iran outraged by Hollywood war epic

  • From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:55:42 -0000

>>>>>>>>>>>..
There is a fine point here that you and Simon seem to take
comfort in, that I'm not quite following, namely that it is the
flag on the pin that is to be prohibited and not the flag itself,
but surely Owers wouldn't allow the flag if she prohibited the
flag on the pin.  The people who want to ban the flag on the pin
also want to ban the flag itself.  I saw several articles to that
effect.  Here is an interesting discussion on Dhimmi Watch:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

we responded, Lawrence, to

LH/Steyn>You'd be surprised how quickly the question of what flag
>should fly over government buildings can be an issue

plus

LH>2005, Anne Owers, Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons,
LH>banned the flying of the English national flag in English
prisons

pointing out that the issue was not what flag should fly over
public buildings
and (in my case) that in any event the Union flag ("Union Jack")
is the appropriate
flag, not the St George's Cross.

LH>Here is an interesting discussion on Dhimmi Watch:


 http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008420.php

the "interesting discussion", Lawrence, is a repetition of (most
of?)
the cnn story I posted in my reply to you (plus comments); I
quote

JE>3.  what actually happened is shown here

>http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/
index

what does the story contain that supports your

>The people who want to ban the flag on the pin also want to ban
the flag itself.

?

I quote

"Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of
Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an
insensitive reminder of the Crusades.

"A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode
in our history," he told CNN. "They see those campaigns as
Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam.

"Muslim or Arab prisoners could take umbrage if staff wore a red
cross badge. It's also got associations with the far-right.
Prison officers should be seen to be neutral."

Doyle added that it was now time for England to find a new flag
and a patron saint who is "not associated with our bloody past
and one we can all identify with.""



plus comments from readers who don't agree with Doyle.



I quote one part of one comment



>The cross should remain on the Union Jack



no-one's suggested it shouldn't -- have they?



LH> I saw several articles to that effect.

citations, please.

Judy Evans, Cardiff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:22 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Iran outraged by Hollywood war epic


There is a fine point here that you and Simon seem to take
comfort in, that I'm not quite following, namely that it is the
flag on the pin that is to be prohibited and not the flag itself,
but surely Owers wouldn't allow the flag if she prohibited the
flag on the pin.  The people who want to ban the flag on the pin
also want to ban the flag itself.  I saw several articles to that
effect.  Here is an interesting discussion on Dhimmi Watch:


 http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008420.php

Lawrence



------------Original Message------------
From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, Mar-14-2007 11:17 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Iran outraged by Hollywood war epic

>>>>>>>>>
In 2005, Anne Owers, Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons,
banned the flying of the English national flag in English prisons
on the grounds that it shows the cross of St. George, which was
used by the Crusaders and so is offensive to Muslims
<<<<<<<<<

1.  the national flags are different, qua symbols, from the US
flag, i.e. not
held in particularly high regard

2.  I have no idea whether prisons here fly flags but if so the
Union
flag, I'd have thought, would be flown, not the St George's
Cross.

3.  what actually happened is shown here

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/index.html

DVLA policy is presumably similar i.e. presumably individual
staff there are
not allowed to wear national flag badges.

4.  (I see I didn't post about this) English Muslim football fans
paint their
faces with the St George's Cross when supporting the team.
(Welsh ones
of course wear the Welsh colours, Scottish ones, the Scottish
cross.)

5.
>>>>>>>>>>
"So Britain's already crept a little way toward the Spectator's
allegedly as-kooky-as-men-from-Mars scenario: the old flag's
unflyable
<<<<<<<<<<<

Nope.  The Union flag ("Union Jack") is normally no problem.  The
English flag can be because of its association with the British
National Party, but it is flown.

Steyn does know a bit about Britain so is presumably being
disingenuous

Judy Evans, Cardiff

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