[lit-ideas] Re: In the Name of Efficiency [was: Punitive Expeditions, Helm's World, Psychotic Expeditions, Pasifistic Expeditons, Experience War, Who are you calling crazy?, Honor: A History, etc.]

  • From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 01:08:47 +0100

DR>I don't read the claims quite the way others do. Lawrence
says, in effect, that military >people develop sub-cultures that
exclude outsiders and make the insiders feel different from
>those outsiders.

I responded to

LH>Fortunately Marines are taught about Civilians in boot camp.
LH> They are taught that civilians barely have sense enough to
get
LH>out of each other's way.  We are taught not worry about the
LH>dumb things they say and do

replying

JE>I hope there are Marines who think differently

DR>That is indeed how military people behave.
That is the essential point of boot camp, to develop small group
cohesion,
>to develop small group cohesion, a sense that only your buddies
are truly trustworthy.


I don't know how far the "boot camp" notion extends to all
military practice but do know that (e.g.) the Royal Scots Dragoon
Guards have a tremendous "family" and "brother" feel, that all
the officers who'd left in the year prior to Desert Storm 'phoned
up to ask if they were needed *even though they did not want to
go and fight in that war*.  But I would not describe their
attitude as


LH> They are taught that civilians barely have sense enough to
get
LH>out of each other's way.  We are taught not worry about the
LH>dumb things they say and do

but then -- as I suggest in my reply to you -- perhaps they don't
quite have "boot camp".  Training does vary between regiments and
types of soldier.  Regiments differ.

DR>Judy says that there are sub-cultures within these
sub-cultures
DR>and that S.A.S. officers would distance themselves from Andy
McNab,

My initial point was that the ex-SAS officers I'd met didn't
conform to the picture Lawrence paints of the Marines.  I also
suggested by query that not all Marines did, John McCreery
agreed.

> who was an SAS private or NCO (I forget which). An S.A.S.
>officer told me the very same thing. He thought McNab was
>beyond the pale, had broken a sacred trust.

as I said, the ex-SAS officers I met did not say anything they
shouldn't have.
I am told that former SAS men who are not officers do talk quite
a lot.  But yes there
is a trust he, specifically, was felt to have broken.

Judy Evans, Cardiff




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