[lit-ideas] Re: Ilunga (Was: Hardest Word to Translate)
- From: Teemu Pyyluoma <teme17@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
--- Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx wrote:
> We are discussing the African language.
We are?
> ----
>
> A problem here is in the attempted translation,
> indeed.
>
> _a person_ who is ready to *forgive* an abuse
> for the first time,
>
> to *tolerate* (but not forgive it?) a second time,
>
> but never -- neither tolerate nor forgive? -- a
> third time.
>
> The question arises as to whether you can tolerate
> but not forgive or vice versa. As it stands, the
> translation offered seems
> ambiguous unless we read it
> as "but never _tolerate_ -- but perhaps forgive? --"
> a third time?
>
IMO, tolerating and forgiving an insult would be a
contradiction or at least repetitious, as if you
forgive there isn't anything to tolerate. It would be
like saying I tolerated her charming company. But what
JL means is that in
a) forgive an insult
b) tolerate an insult
c) not A or B
It isn't clear whether or in c is exclusive,
complaining about which is an annoying habbit of
logically minded people. In practice, "or" in usage
tends to be exclusive ("coffee or tea?") However,
there are plenty of exceptions ("milk or sugar?) and
there are cases when it isn't clear which one it is.
There is nothing untillegeble about replying "both" to
"coffee or tea?" And thus the best that can be said of
the formalization of expression "A or B" in general is
(A OR B) OR (A XOR B)
Given that Ilungas might be particulary prone to
vagueness, I see no problem with preserving that
vagueness in the translation.
Cheers,
Teemu
Helsinki, Finland
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