[lit-ideas] Re: Ideology vs Experience

  • From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:12:04 -0400

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mike Geary 
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 10/2/2006 7:10:34 PM 
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Ideology vs Experience

>> since the next email in response will be from Mike or Eric telling me that 
>> there's no such thing as an unconscious. <<

Not me, I believe strongly in the unconscious.  It's the conscious mind I have 
my doubts about.  The conscious mind thinks it knows the unconscious, but that 
seems nigh on impossible to me.

A.A. That's the problem.  Everyone thinks that they know why they do what they 
do, when in fact the conscious mind is the tip of the iceberg.  The unconscious 
is the rest of of the iceberg.  Everybody thinks what they can see is all there 

>>Sex crimes, including pedophilia, are about power, hatred, and rage.

Sometimes.  Sometimes they're about sex.  Sometimes they're about love.  
Sometimes they're just the cultural thing to do.

A.A. Sex crimes (crimes) are about love?  Care to define love?  The cultural 
thing, yes, in that, for example, machismo is cultural, when in fact it's 
warped.  Spanking is cultural, and it's warped, etc. etc.

>> It's like alcoholism, it can be managed, never cured. <<

Or so some believe.

A.A. If you think otherwise, that's fine.  Most alcoholics who stop drinking 
and start again are in trouble.

>> Sexual predators hate themselves, but the hate is really of the parental 
>> injunctions and actions internalized onto self, then externalized onto 
>> someone else. <<

This may be true in some cases.  You write as if it's true in all.

A.A.  It's true in all cases.  Sex predators hate themselves.  In fact, I'd go 
so far as to say all predators hate themselves.  It's pretty safe to say that 
when one pushes one's own pain deep enough there is no ability to care about 
anyone else.  I personally do not believe in evil.  I believe only in very hurt 
people who go on to hurt people.  People like Ted Bundy are a mystery, but even 
there most likely there was some major disconnectedness going on coupled with 
something the child perceived as torture.  I doubt anyone makes an argument for 
genetic serial killers or sex predators.

>> Sex crimes reflect abuse and neglect, passive as well as active, in 
>> childhood. <<

True in some cases, but certainly not all.

A.A.  Sex crimes are motivated by rage, hatred.  That doesn't come out of the 
blue.  It's put there, whether actively or passively.  Passive sometimes looks 
like a good childhood on the surface, but it's not.

>> It's like I said for years that affairs have nothing to do with sex but 
>> everything to do with getting back at someone. <<

And for years I've scoffed at this.  Revenge might well be a reason for 
adultery, maybe even a common reason, but I assert with all the authority that 
you've presented for your assertion that plain old horniness is just as common 
a reason as revenge. 

A.A.  Lots of people are horny, but only some act on it.  Either the 
relationship is worth so little, or there's something pretty powerful driving 
the need for an affair.

>>It sounds like Foley may have wanted to get caught and punished.  That's why 
>>he wrote the laws.  Real criminals and killers, like Ted Bundy, get a high 
>>out of not getting caught.  Either that or Foley is really stupid, which I 

That's possible.  It's also possible that Foley simply found himself in a nest 
of young men that he hungered for and decided to take the chance.  

A.A. In which case, why did he go to such lengths to write legislation against 
what he was doing?

Why would you think he's not stupid?  What intelligence have you seen in 

A.A.  It's not about intelligence.  It's about emotions, maturity levels, 
greed, arrogance, need for power.  None of that is driven by conscious 
impulses.  But sexual predation takes the usual stuff to new levels.  I 
actually feel sorry for Foley.  The isolation and shame he must have felt, 
medicated by alcohol.  I would argue that he felt the isolation and shame 
first, which led to the sexual predation, which made him feel more and more 
isolated, so he set himself up to get caught.  I feel sorry for pharma and 
other corrupt executives and regular drug dealers too.  To be so disconnected 
from the human race that all one wants is more and more, never to have enough, 
is very sad.  Hurt people will hurt people.  That's just a fact.

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