[lit-ideas] Re: Ideology vs Experience
- From: "Simon Ward" <sedward@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:56:49 +0100
Sliding out of it again Lawrence? Wouldn't expect anything else, but then I
suppose I did give you the opportunity. More fool me.
Sorry, but I'm not playing hypotheticals and also reject you're accusation of
wishful thinking. Do you really think I'd be pleased to note that the Iraq War
has served to turn so many moderates into fundamentalists. I can imagine how
that might please you, but not me I assure you.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:24 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Ideology vs Experience
It was a Leftist leak that got you salivating. That is, it was wishful
Leftist thinking. So Bush released everything that wouldn't endanger sources
to counter it. You apparently missed that part, but then why would the
Leftists who leaked their wishful thinking follow up with a correction?
Let me ask you a question Simon. You may have heard that a production of
Idomeneo was cancelled for fear of offending Muslims. The German press is
hammering the production manager who made this decision which has apparently
been reversed. The scene in question is one in which the severed heads of
Buddha, Christ and Mohammad are shown. The Director, Kisten Harms was afraid
that this scene was in the same category as the Danish cartoons. Since the
production will now go on, if there is a reaction much like that to the Danish
cartoons, will you conclude that Harms was right and the German Press reaction
wrong?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=ahh8jPDRQmCQ&refer=muse
Lawrence
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:10 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Ideology vs Experience
Actually, Lawrence, you have put it down to just ideology.
Interesting then that just as documents are leaked in the US point towards
Iraq as a 'recruiting sergeant' for muslim extremism, that your views change.
Coincidence of course.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:49 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Ideology vs Experience
No, no, I couldn't have said it's exclusively ideology. You misunderstood.
It could not exist without this particular ideology, but like any ideology it
is one which one lives with, which answers the daily needs, which explains what
is going on about one. The nature of Sayyid Qutb's writings is that he wrote
about these things; so the believer will say much as a Marxist would say, see,
this is what he said and he was right. You can see the evidence. You can see
what we need to do. You can see how we need to think about these things.
Isn't that what you do, Simon?
Lawrence
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:44 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Ideology vs Experience
Seems you're in revisionist mode then Lawrence. Shame really.
The issue, Lawrence is the manner in which moderates become extremist, not
with how many moderates there might be. You have consistently said that it's
exclusively down to ideology, which of course denies the possibility that the
Iraq war (to take one example) might be pushing moderates towards the
extremists.
Now, however, you seem to be suggesting otherwise. Forgetting Qutb for the
moment, deal with the simple question: Do moderate mulsims react to their
perceptions and experiences of western action in the world?
Simon
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