[lit-ideas] Re: Hitler Meets A Christmas Story
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:17:06 -0500
> [Original Message]
> From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 12/28/2005 3:20:26 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Hitler Meets A Christmas Story
>
>
> --- Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > at the time. Maybe you can tell me about an uproar
> > against this sentiment in Germany.
>
> Germans of my generation (and, I believe, successing
> ones) were taught all about Nazism. They know that it
> wasn't "the German people" who voted Hitler into power
> (i.e., it was not a majority vote) but they take the
> hit -- as it were -- anyway. Germany has strong
> anti-hate-speech laws and Nazi symbols are banned
> there. I believe Holocaust revisionism is banned
> there too (as it is in Austria).
>
>
Now why would they need to do this?
> Hitler actually
> > despised his own people once it was clear that the
> > war was lost. They were weak; they deserved to die.
> > These are his words.
>
> Non sequitur
>
>
Tell it to Hitler. These are his own words.
> > AA. I guess if you get your butt kicked it could
> > have a way of toning things down. But not for gas
> > station owners.
>
> Sorry a gas station owner was nasty to you. Some
> Russians were nasty to me when I was in Leningrad, but
> I didn't infer anything about Russians in general from
> that; I suggest you try not to infer anything from
> such instances.
>
Actually, he wasn't nasty to me. He was quite nice to me. So nice, in
fact, I had to stop going there. Perhaps he was just a rogue German. He
just happened to not like Russians.
> > M.G. I have no idea how wide-spread the acceptance
> > of Nazi racial superiority was among the German
> > people during the 20's, 30's and 40's.
> >(etc.)
>
>
> > AA. Well, there was enough to fuel WWII.
>
>
> *Why don't you read some history*, Irene?
>
>
*Why don't you say something instead of doing personal attacks,* Judy?
> The rest
> > of it sounds like we're in agreement. People simply
> > hate people. Nearly all people, nearly all the
> > time. Irish need not apply, etc.
>
> Then you haven't read Mike's post. (I find most
> people don't hate most people, and I live in a very
> "multicultural" city and neighbourhood.)
>
>
I'm talking historically.
>
> > AA. Yup.
>
> I'd say there was a lot of Social Darwinism in British
> Imperialism; but to apply it further, without proof,
> is wrong.
>
>
So the British had it all sewed up with Social Darwinism, did they?
>
> > M.G. I'd say the need to have a place where you
> > could be a Jew and not be hated for that was at the
> > heart of the Zionism.
> >
> >
> > AA. No doubt. But Israel was conceived before
> > WWII. Before WWI in fact.
>
>
> Yes indeed -- but then Jews were hated and persecuted
> long before then.
>
>
The scapegoat/victim thing. It all starts with beating of children of all
nationalities and religions. Let's stop creating defective humans who are
filled with rage that need to dump it somewhere.
> It was essentially a
> > 19th century idea, take somebody's land for
> > yourself. Think it would work today?
>
> I suggest you look at the arguments of Zionists in
> those decades.
>
>
Answer the question. Think it would work today?
>
> > AA. And/or politics. I don't know that people who
> > order the dropping of atomic bombs are overrun with
> > remorse or guilt.
>
> I agree but think you've misunderstood Mike's point
>
>
Which is?
> > AA. Complicated, of course, because people are
> > generally heartless.
>
>
> *No*, Irene,*all too easy*, for you, because you
> ascribe everything to human viciousness and lack of
> empathy, which you appear to think universal. Matters
> get complicated when explanations take into account a
> variety of factors
And you are an apologist for vicious behavior.
> (I add that you confuse, here, complex explanations
> and complex situations, so fail to reply to Mike)
>
While you tell me nothing except that I'm wrong.
>
> > M.G. Nevertheless, justice should be striven for,
> > Palestinians should be compensated for their losses.
> >
> >
> > AA. Sure got me on how to do that.
>
> Payment for lost homes?
>
Where would the homes be located?
>
>
> > AA. Napoleon is considered a
> > great general. Ever think he might be a mass
> > murderer? Probably, like everybody, Napoleon is
> > synonymous with greatness for you.
>
>
> I don't know anyone for whom Napoleon is synonymous
> with greatness.
Are you kidding? He's synonymous with victory. Everybody wants victory.
For some here, Churchill is/was
> synonymous with greatness, but there are also many who
> loathe/d him and what he stood for. (Indeed, as you
> may know, the soldiers came home from war and, with
> others, voted him out of office and voted in a
> government that -- I should qualify this slightly,
> still... -- founded a welfare state.)
>
>
That's probably true. Churchill is too recent. He's also doesn't have
enough, what's the word, egomaniacal qualities to ensure "greatness".
> Every once in a
> > great while, yes, great while, there's some empathy,
> > but even in A Christmas Story one kid beats another
> > bloody, and people, meaning the audience (this movie
> > is wildly popular) as well as the kids in the story,
> > think it's a hoot. Yes, empathy.
>
>
> Do you believe you have empathy, Irene?
>
I don't make apologies for vicious behavior, let's put it that way.
Andy
> Judy Evans, Cardiff
>
>
>
>
>
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