[lit-ideas] Griceians As Such

  • From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 05:59:35 -0400 (EDT)

Palma was referring to bananas as frozen music.
The idea being that bananas, as such, are frozen music, as such. 
In a message dated 4/30/2014 3:11:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
palmaadriano@xxxxxxxxx writes:
avoid the locution "as such" - it is purely  bullshit thrown in to show 
that one speaks with the literati-
0.1 what is  meaning as such?
and contrast with
0.2 what is  meaning?
if anyone has a non trivial case to be made for the use of 'as such'  I am 
unable to fathom it.

In general, the guideline from a Griceian  perspective for the use of 
alleged trivialities or otiosities* is to look for  the LITERAL meaning at the 
level of the EXplicature. 

"As such" is a  comparative. Note that the Germans, who lack a word like 
the English 'like', in  their colloquial speech, do have a very cognate form 
to English 'as'; to wit:  'als'. Phrases containing 'as such' are then, 
comparatives -- they are, qua  figures of speech, similes -- rather than, say, 

Now 'such' has  an Anglo-Saxon pedigree. The -ch sound hides an interesting 

It  started to be current c.1200, Old English swylc, swilc "just as, as, in 
like  manner; as if, as though; such a one, he" (pronoun and adjective), 
from a  Proto-Germanic compound *swalikaz "so formed" (cognates: Old Saxon 
sulik, Old  Norse slikr, Old Frisian selik, Middle Dutch selc, Dutch zulk, Old 
High German  sulih, German solch, Gothic swaleiks), from swa "so" (see so) + 
*likan "form,"  source of Old English gelic "similar" (see like (adj.)). 

While it may be  argued that the colloquial "suchlike" (early 15c.) is 
slightly pleonastic,  'such' is German 'solch'. "Als solch".

Palma was wondering for cases  where 'as such' is NOT otiose. 

A philosophical background could be  provided along Aristotelian lines. 
Aristotle used 'e', which was translated into  Latin as "qua". 

Thus we can say that

Griceians eat Italian  food.

Griceians enjoy a good party.

But it's only

Griceians  _as such_ that rely on implicature as an explanatory notion.

In other  words: Griceians qua Griceians. 

There is another use of 'as such' which is abbreviatory and useful, in  
terms of the logical form involved. It does trigger the odd implicature which  
can easily be cancelled. 
Thus Grice may refer to "philosophers such as Wittgenstein", which SHOULD  
include Wittgenstein, although strictly, Grice is referring to philosophers 
who  are LIKE Wittgenstein ('as'). But then Wittgenstein IS like 
Griceians insist that conversation is guided by the desideratum of the  
exchange of information being maximal; as such, they tend to avoid otiosities. 
In the above, the 'as such' replaces a longer _thing_.

Kant possibly uses 'als solch' in his "Kritik" (or one of his "Kritiks", to 
 be more precise).



(* The adjective 'otiose' as used in  Griceian literature is due to Rogers 
Albritton. Someone who attended his  lectures at Harvard, reported that 
Albritton used 'otiose' every OTHER  sentence.). 
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