[lit-ideas] Re: Fw: Re: Charles Taylor Templeton Prize
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:12:59 EDT
Cheering, I am. Amen, Amen, Hallelujah, preach it brother!!!!
Julie Krueger
wishing I were half as articulate
========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Fw: Re: Charles
Taylor Templeton Prize Date: 3/19/2007 2:36:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: _atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To:
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
AR:
> There is a disconnect when someone maintains that he both believes a god
> created the world AND the universe is a natural phenomenon (i.e., it
> happened by itself).
I'm not so sure I agree that there is necessarily a disconnect. What does
the word "god" mean and what do the words "natural phenomenon" mean? "God"
probably has 6 billion definitions. "Natural phenomenon" probably means
something like cause and effect according to the laws of physics as we know
them. Unfortunately we know very little about the laws of physics and
almost nothing at all about the "stuff" of existence, all we really know are
some interactions among particles that we've been able to measure. But what
the hell the particles ARE remains as much a mystery to us as ever. We have
some primal words like "energy" that sometimes delude us into thinking that
because we have a word we have knowledge, but it ain't so. God could be
energy -- or energy a manifestation of God. Is there some ground of being?
Some not-beyond-which? That doesn't have to be like anything you've ever
imagined. To me God means the Wholly Unknown. Do I believe in that God?
You bet. The unknown is always with me.
The Rev. Mike Geary,
Pope of the Unknown.
in Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andreas Ramos" <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:26 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Fw: Re: Charles Taylor Templeton Prize
>> So, one can be a Christian and readily accept that the Universe is
>> billions of years old and will remain in existence for billions of more
>> years.
>
There are certainly
> many people who believe both statements simultaneously; but they are not
> being consistent in their thinking. They want two mutually-contradictory
> positions at the same time.
>
> This isn't unique to religion and science. It happens in politics as well.
> In Denmark, the queen is, to put it mildly, beloved by everyone. This
> includes members of the communist party. Yes, there are Danish communists
> who love the queen. Quite nonsensical.
>
> Ed supports this with another point: he says most Christians are sensible
> people and don't think the bible is literally true.
>
> That's incorrect. In Alabama, 79% of women believe the bible is literal
> truth. In the Southern Red states, about 75% of the population belives the
> bible is literal truth. Nationwide, 52% of Americans believe the bible is
> literal truth. No bang.
>
>
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/State%20Polls/August%202006/bibleLiterallyTrue.htm
>
> So, some Christians may be confused and accept both statements, but most
> Christians reject science altogether.
>
> An even better test is evolution. People can quibble about whether the
> universe was started by quantum mechanics or sky gods; that's not a
> personal issue. They don't really care.
>
> But... was your grandmother a chimp? That's personal. Now it gets really
> emotional. Darwin or sky gods? Chimp or likeness-of-god?
>
> What percentage of Americans accept Darwin's theory of evolution as the
> explanation for humans?
>
> The number will astonish everyone. I thought it was at least 15%.
>
> 1.2%. That's right. 98.8% of Americans do not accept evolution theory.
> Their grandmother was not a chimpanzee.
>
> http://www.physorg.com/news11541.html
>
> yrs,
> andreas
> www.andreas.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Gleason" <egleason@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 3:16 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Fw: Re: Charles Taylor Templeton Prize
>
>
>>> Andreas Ramos writes:
>>> For Christians, time goes back to only a few thousand years. No big
>>> bang, no evolution.
>>>
>>> Certainly, Andreas, you are not suggesting that all Christians dispute
>>> the cosmological theory that the Universe started with the Big Bang.
>>
>> So you're saying there are Christians who accept the universe was
>> created as a random
>> fluctuation of quantum mechanics? They are atheist Christians?
>>
>>
>> Yes, I am, actually.
>> While I don't have precise numbers, I believe that the global Christian
>> community numbers
>> in the tens of millions at least. One can assume that not every member
>> of this community
>> adheres to the same docrtine. In fact, one would be recklessly
>> irresponsible to make that suggestion.
>> It is true that some Christians regard the Bible as an absolute truth
>> which only lends itself to literal
>> interpretation. Yet, most of them believe that the Biblical
>> creation timeline is more of a parable
>> rather than a direct explanation of creation.
>>
>> Doesn't anybody find it alarming that in the 21st century so many still
>> cannot reconcile the existence of a higher
>> designing intelligence with cosmological theory and biological
>> evolutionary processes? To many, God could only have fashioned the
>> Universe with a wand snap on blank parchment. Could it not be
>> possible that creation necessarily had to be a prolonged event? That
>> the quantum flicker sparking our genesis might have been precipitated by
>> a deliberate action in a higher dimension.....that this flicker might
>> very well have been engineered to produce the proper balance of
>> fundamental force
>> strengths. (If gravity were only slightly less powerful, such
>> structures like galaxies, stars, planets could have never formed.)
>> Yet, it was strong enough to produce the stars without being so powerful
>> as to make the Universe collapse in on itself within a few nanoseconds
>> of its creation.
>> The stars, through nucleosynthesis, fashioned the heavier elements out
>> of the light elements -hydrogen, helium- and thereby produced the
>> elements (oxygen, carbon, iron, etc) that are required to cause the
>> biochemical reactions necessary for life.
>> Simple life forms evolve to higher life forms....big things eat little
>> things, making intelligence in little things such an asset...
>> intelligence becomes more sophisticated...and on and on.
>> All of this takes a great deal of time.
>> So, one can be a Christian and readily accept that the Universe is
>> billions of years old and will remain in existence for billions of more
>> years.
>> (Although, Andreas, please defend your assertion that the Universe will
>> end in heat death 50 billion years from now. This is only one possible
>> scenario.)
>>
>> I admit that I am an agnostic. I became an agnostic because I am
>> unequal to the task of comprehending the nature of a deity capable of
>> creating the Universe. Heavens above, I am at a loss to comprehende
>> the intellects of most humans, so I won't presume to know what God has
>> up his hyperdimensional sleeve.
>>
>>
>> Edward Gleason
>>
>> Portland
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