[lit-ideas] Re: From today's paper
- From: Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:00:40 -0800 (PST)
Your beliefs are interesting but they are not evidence based. You have not
defined socialism and you have not explained how socialism, whatever in your
opinion it is, is more authoritarian than any other system. Is socialism a
political system? Is it an economic system? I think before we go any further
we first have to agree on what is the point of government in the first
place? How would you define government and why would you want one or not want
one?
I would say government as it's theoretically based in the Constitution is as
Lincoln described it, of the people, by the people, for the people. If one
takes that statement to its logical conclusion, the Founding Fathers were
implementing a socialist system. Did they imply that the government, which is
to say, the people, own the means of production? No, just that government
needs to serve the people or it becomes a dictatorship, a monarchy.
People today rail against socialism and turn around and let fascism right in
the front door, which is to say the merger of government (in this case a small
group of ruling elites) with industry. Industry then writes its own laws,
which means they dictate our behavior, which is exactly what's happening with
all the testing that you're referring to. Corporations are doing that, and
they're doing that to deny you medical coverage, jobs, credit (back in the old
days), etc. Not only that, but they dictate what you watch on television, etc.
etc. In other words, corporations are dictating not only your behavior but
your belief system that you claim as your own. That's all coming from our
current system, which is hardly socialist.
Is any system subject to abuse? Of course, that's human nature, to abuse
everything it can get its hands on. The FF gave us a beautiful system and we
killed it, and they knew we would; as one of them said, "if you can keep it".
So maybe the answer is to get rid of all systems? Then what? The fact remains
that properly done, the countries with the highest standard of living today are
socialist, which is to say the people are doing the best. For example, even
nutritionally, Europe tends to use beet juice and the like to color their
yogurts and other products. In the U.S.. the virtually corporate-run FDA
allows artificial colors (Red 40, etc.). If you can cite anything to the
contrary, then certainly do.
Maybe the bottom line is one doesn't build much that's straight with the
crooked timber that is humanity. Still, we have to first see the crookedness
or we don't stand a chance at straightening it.
--- On Mon, 11/3/08, Eric Yost <mr.eric.yost@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Eric Yost <mr.eric.yost@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: From today's paper
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:06 AM
>>The authoritarian aspects are the ones being used to
*remove* anything good for the people ...
Not exclusively. There are many other authoritarian
aspects of our society that derive from manipulation of
social programs designed to bring good results. High
school kids forced to perform community service (what
could be wrong with that?) are funneled into crony
rackets as slave labor. Programs designed to bring more
doctors to medically underserved areas are used to
funnel medical slave labor for investors who buy and
sell medical practices like Monopoly properties, thus
ensuring the areas stay underserved.
For every well-intentioned social plan, there are a
pack of clever sleazoids waiting to turn it into a
profit center. Often these sleazoids are in cahoots
with legislators who draft enabling laws.
Credit card companies (yay, Joe Biden of Delaware!)
recently started lowering credit limits by careful
screening of people's purchases and by investigating
people's bank balances. For example, if you bought food
with a credit card, that was considered suspicious.
Authoritarian control and intrusion of privacy.
More and more, our society is concerned with control.
The control of people's lives. Drug-testing, credit
reports, medical records, and a thousand other
seemingly-useful systems that agglomerate into
increasing authoritarian control.
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