[lit-ideas] Re: Flotilla Guerilla
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 13:48:44 -0700
Mike,
See my response to at least part of your note at
http://www.lawrencehelm.com/2010/06/israels-preemptive-six-day-war.html
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Mike Geary
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 12:17 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Flotilla Guerilla
LH: Skipping the invective,...
What invective???
LH: "and trying to avoid repeating myself, let's look at your "land grab"
accusation. How many times was Israel attacked by groups of Arab nations?
I've lost count."
Do you not know the history of the region? Are you ignorant of the lead up
to the Six Day War? Do you not know that it was a preemptive war initiated
by Israel? Are you ignorant of the fact that Israel drove out hundreds of
thousands of Palestinians, confiscated their properties and have never
compensated them and deny them right of return? And the religious fanatic
settlers and doing the same in the territories. The Pals have ever right to
fight back.
LH: "Forgotten in all of this is that these Arab states, continue to reject
Israel's right to exist."
And ignored by you is the fact that Israel has denied the Palestinians their
right to statehood. Get real, Lawrence.
LH: "I know you don't care about history or political philosophy....
Oh, but I do. It's propagandized history and political philosophy that I
reject. Are you really quaking in your boots over the thoughts of Sayyid
Qutb? We have enough weapons to destroy the whole earth and you're afraid
of a crackpot who longs to live in the 7th century?? But Dick Cheney
doesn't scare the shit out of you? Wow! Very interesting.
LH: "Turkey hoped to be the great secular light to the Arab World, but the
fundamentalist Muslim world refused to accept their secularism."
Change Turkey to U.S., Arab World to Western World, Muslim to Christian and
you're talking about us.
LH: "Obama's siding with Israel is also interesting."
Not interesting, deeply disappointing, add kissing Netanyahu's ass to the
list: Guantanamo still open, Bagram prision still in busniness, no CIA
operatives have been charged with war crimes, Cheney still a free man, no
Wall Street CEO's indicted for fraud, no real financial reform passed, no
meaningful health care reform passed, no energy policy passed (the man
actually approved more off-shore drilling!!!) Obama is Bush in black-face.
Where's the goddamn liberal we elected??? Playing community organizer, I
fear. Presidents aren't elected to "do" things, technicians do the work.
Ronnie boy Reagan knew that. Have the "look", have the words -- that's all
we elect a President for. Carter tried to be a technician President -- he
was probably more intelligent and decent than the last ten Presidents
combined, but intelligence isn't what we hired them for. We want them to
speak our prejudices, our indignation, our rage, our smugness. We want to
believe that we are in charge. You should love Obama, Lawrence, he's been
such a disappointment to us socialist, Marxist, pacifist liberals. Maybe
tomorrow Obama 'll awake and rage against the dying of the light. Maybe
tomorrow Israel will awake from its Likud madness and embrace the world.
Let us hope. Let us pray.
LH: " See David Frum on this "
Ha! Good joke. Glad to see you haven't lost you sense of humor.
Mike Geary
Memphis
Lawrence:
Mike,
Skipping the invective, and trying to avoid repeating myself, let's look at
your "land grab" accusation. How many times was Israel attacked by groups
of Arab nations? I've lost count. But the "land grab" consists of not
giving back all the land they conquered in these various attacks. The
Israeli rationale for not giving back all the land, something few victors in
the history of warfare would consider doing, was that the Arabs would use
certain sections as ideal launching spots for their next attack.
The Arabs attack, Israel resists their attack and wins. After that there is
Arab inspired outrage at the way Israel resisted. "They jumped the gun.
They attacked us before we could launch our attack which isn't fair. They
didn't give back all the land they conquered," etc.
Forgotten in all of this is that these Arab states, continue to reject
Israel's right to exist. Their maps of the region show no Israel. Their
short and long-term goal is to "drive Israel into the sea." Living at peace
with Israel is up to the Arabs. Let them recognize Israel's right to exist
and relations will improve over night. That is the most important issue --
not quibbles about how Israel secured its existence, "land grabs," "not
fighting fair," "using more potent weapons than their attackers," etc.
I know you don't care about history or political philosophy, but Sayyid Qutb
taught that there must be no compromise with "The West" which included for
him and all his followers, all the European Nations, especially the U.S. and
Israel. If they were to conquer Israel, that would not bring peace with the
West, it would encourage them to believe their Qutb-inspired strategy
worked. And if they should eventually destroy Israel, who could deny them
that?
Yes, the idea that Turkey might go to war with Israel (as hinted at in the
article you posted:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-erdogan-considering-vis
iting-gaza-to-break-blockade-1.294326 ) is interesting. But note that the
Turkish military isn't in favor of it. They like being on good terms with
Israel. Turkey hoped to be the great secular light to the Arab World, but
the fundamentalist Muslim world refused to accept their secularism. For
some time there has been conflict between the secular military and the
Islamist-inspired Fundamentalists, largely in the outlying districts.
Erdogan seems to be their man. One mustn't forget that their is a history
of military coups in Turkey. Turkey has gone a little too far in giving up
their secularism before. Each time the military has executed a coups and
returned Turkey to the course Attaturk set for it.
Obama's siding with Israel is also interesting. America's siding with
Israel has gone on with few interruptions since the days of Harry Truman.
Obama seemed briefly that he might be one of the interruptions, but he seems
to have educated himself in what's at stake. See David Frum on this -- as
well as his take on Erdogan:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-erdogan-considering-vis
iting-gaza-to-break-blockade-1.294326
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