You might try reading A Continent for the Taking, Howard W. French. The book is on Africa and how the U.S. not only doesn't give a hoot about democracy there, but we actually *support* strong arm thug dictators as long as they deliver the goods. He's writing specifically about Africa, however, Saddam was our puppet until he stopped delivering; likewise the Shah was our puppet. This baloney called spreading democracy in Iraq is just a conjuring up of boogie men to make excuses for our thuggery. I'll admit there might be something to Islamism, but they're a problem only if we're weak and holding out our hats looking for loans to keep up afloat. We are our enemy, Lawrence, not Islamism. If we spent the tiniest fraction on shoring up ourselves, the Islamists wouldn't stand a chance. Instead we empower bogey men. I might remind you that China doesn't have a problem buddying up to Africa and South America and their oil. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Amago To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 1/21/2006 4:23:40 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Blind Leading the Not-so Blind Well, Gosh yourself. We do what they do. They're bad; we're good. Not gosh. Duh. Gosh got you out of answering what a win in Vietnam would look like. It also got you out of answering why we're bankrupting ourselves and enfeebling ourselves over a few terrorists. *Someone* on this list is so used to being fed American supremacist hogwash that no amount of evidence about reality will change their minds. If we're supreme, Jose, it's in our massive monstrous debts and in getting thrashed. Explain that one. While you're at it, I'd appreciate an explanation as to how our supreme selves so misunderstood the enemy for 40 years? Adjust, Lawrence. Americans are humans. Humans are stupid. Americans have done nothing to make a dent in that syllogism. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 1/21/2006 3:58:21 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Blind Leading the Not-so Blind We are opposing a predatory ideology called Islamism which is engaged in actions Pinter accuses us of. Someone I dont know how to reply to on Lit-Ideas claimed we are no better than the USSR was because we are forcing democracy upon the Iraqis whether they want it or not. Gosh (although as the logic police point out, Gosh is not a logical argument) . . . well, just Gosh! Lawrence