[lit-ideas] Re: Europe's future, catastrophic or apocalyptic

  • From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 00:28:43 -0700

CB: ?Lawrence, you do your argument no good by looking for support to
someone who clearly does not know what she is talking about!

 

LH: What argument is that, Chris? 

 

LH: Berlinski had a chapter on Rammstein, did a lot of research on them,
interviewed their members, etc.  After reading her book, Menace in Europe, I
was puzzled as to why she included a chapter on Rammstein and another on
Jose Bove.  I guessed as I said at the time that she was using them as
symbols of the European nature that is anything but as acquiescent as
writers like Oriana Fallaci describes it to be.  Berlinski?s description of
them makes them sound menacing.  The lyrics she quotes sound menacing.  She
gives a web site to all of their lyrics: http://www.herzeleid.com/en/lyrics.


 

I was especially interested in reading her interview with Front Page Mag
(http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21955 ) because she
leaves the symbolism and coyness behind and is blunt in explaining what she
thinks about the conditions in and prospects for Europe.  

 

In regard to just what statement Rammstein might be making by dressing up as
they have, Berlinski asked them that very question and didn?t get a good
answer.  She didn?t think the Rammstein singers were especially bright.  The
menace she was most concerned about wasn?t the menace that emanated from
Rammstein although they did strike her as menacing, especially the lead
singer.  The menace that most concerned her was from the fact that they were
the most popular group in Germany and that what they presented was not so
very far in appearance from the appearance of Nazis in World War II.  The
fact that so many Germans were attracted to what they presented struck her
as ominous.  

 

The interview explains her views on this more clearly.

 

Lawrence

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Chris Bruce
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:52 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Europe's future, catastrophic or apocalyptic

 

 

On 10. Mai 2006, at 17:13, Lawrence Helm wrote:

 

> Claire Berlinski?s Menace in Europe, why the Continent?s Crisis is 

> America?s too.  This book described the growing presence of Islam and 

> Islamists in Europe but she also hinted at the possibility of a future 

> violent reaction against European Muslims.  In regard to Germany, for 

> example, she described their admiration for the rock group Rammstein 

> which dresses up in surrealistic versions of what could be described 

> as Nazi Uniforms and sings of hate, murder, rape etc.

 

Lawrence, you do your argument no good by looking for support to 

someone who clearly does not know what she is talking about!

 

(To start with, it is not necessary to know a single thing about the 

band Rammstein to recognize the internal contradiction of the example 

given 'in regard to Germany': "the rock group Rammstein which dresses 

up in surrealistic versions of what could be described as Nazi 

Uniforms". Given the [well-known] attitude of the nazis towards 

surrealism, and supposing the statement to be accurate, just what sort 

of statement would one be making in 'dressing up in surrealistic 

versions of nazi uniforms'?  George Grosz' and John Heartfield's works 

are full of 'surrealistic versions of nazi uniforms' - I don't think 

*anyone* mistakes their intentions.)

 

List members can decide for themselves about the group Rammstein by 

searching the Internet using the keywords 'Rammstein' and 'neonazi OR 

neo-nazi'.  Here's an excerpt from a BBC page:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A680861

 

"The media were very quick to pass that judgement on Rammstein. During 

the early 1990s, news of an upsurge of neo-Nazi activities in the 

Eastern part of Germany had shocked the world. Consequently, some 

people tended to be very careful about anything that came from East 

Germany, especially when it was anything unusual. In the wake of these 

developments, Rammstein was a likely candidate to be considered one of 

those neo-Nazi type of bands.

 

"This verdict was passed unjustly. The musical history of Rammstein's 

members includes bands like Feeling B and The Inchtabokatables, which 

constituted part of the core of East German punk music before the 

unification of Germany. In unified Germany, these bands were known for 

their decidedly left-wing attitude. ?

 

"To clear the confusion up, once and for all, Rammstein produced for 

their third album the song 'Links, 2, 3, 4'. The catch phrase of that 

song, which was released as a single, translates as:

 

      They want my heart to be right

      But when I look down

      I see it beating on the left side.

 

"In true Rammstein style, however, they chose to cause confusion, 

again. The words of the refrain, 'Links, 2, 3, 4', are often used by 

people marching (Links means 'left') and are thus, by reminding the 

listener of uniformity rather than individuality, often associated with 

right-wing or totalitarian organizations. Typically, the audience is 

not given a clear look the band; they are forced to take a very close 

look in order to understand them."

 

Chris Bruce

Kiel, Germany

 

P.S.:  About that 'anything unusual' in the first paragraph of the 

quotation from the BBC: apparently one of the antics Rammstein's lead 

singer got up to was lighting himself on fire and performing while 

completely engulfed in flames.  The popular music industry is a crazy 

world ?.

 

P.P.S.   A little about George Grosz and John Heartfield (from 

_Encyclopaedia Britannica 2005_):

 

"In drawing collections such as The Face of the Ruling Class (1921) and 

Ecce Homo (1922), Grosz depicts fat Junkers, greedy capitalists, smug 

bourgeoisie, drinkers, and lechers?as well as hollow-faced factory 

labourers, the poor, and the unemployed.

 

"At this time Grosz belonged to the Berlin  Dada art movement, having 

befriended the German Dadaist brothers Wieland Herzfelde and John 

Heartfield in 1915. Gradually, Grosz became associated with the  Neue 

Sachlichkeit (?New Objectivity?) movement, which embraced realism as a 

tool of satirical social criticism.

 

"After immigrating to the United States in 1933 to teach at the Art 

Students League in New York City, Grosz's work became less 

misanthropic, as he drew magazine cartoons, nudes, and landscapes. He 

became a U.S. citizen in 1938. During World War II he showed his old 

pessimism in sharply coloured, teeming canvases such as The Survivor 

(1944). So famous and threatening were Grosz's depictions of war and 

corruption that the Nazis designated him ?Cultural Bolshevist Number 

One.? A French critic called his work ?the most definitive catalog of 

man's depravity in all history.?

 

" John Heartfield (formerly Helmut Herzfelde, but Anglicized as 

aprotest against German patriotism). One of the chief means of 

expression used by these artists was the  photomontage, which consists 

of fragments of pasted photographs combined with printed messages; the 

technique was most effectively employed by Heartfield, particularly in 

his later, anti-Nazi works (e.g., Kaiser Adolph, 1939). Like the groups 

in New York and Zürich, the Berlin artists staged public meetings, 

shocking and enraging the audience with their antics."

 

-cb

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