[lit-ideas] Re: European civil war
- From: "Steve Chilson" <stevechilson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:58:53 -0800
I wanted to rephrase the subject as "Yes, but" because it seems such a
part of Judith's discussion below.
I think the important thing to remember about modern France is the
percentage of Muslims who live in France and the comparative birth rate
in France between Muslims and non-Muslims. There is where you will find
your tetchy subjects and your polls that show division.
In Rotterdam, last year, the number one name of male babies born was
Muhammad (sic)
Not Jan, or Jaap or Hein. Muhammad. (sic)
Just like it's important to know what fundamentalist Christians believe
in America, equally important to know what fundamentalist Muslims believe
in Europe.
I don't get a Muslim vibe on the EU's treating of Turkey to join favoured
status, for example. It's a white christian capitalist vibe, isn't it
then?
The killing is the question.
In the future assimilation in Europe, assimilation will be the degree to
which the hosts are willing to accomodate their guests or kill them.
Not the other way around. Birth rates will deterime the it --
It's formulating already:
the forces of the third world versus the elite.
it's a war that religion is conveniently the puppet of. The media are
the heavies who lay on the lather of the fools.
Steve Chilson,
warwickshire.
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:43:59 -0800 (PST), "Omar Kusturica"
<omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> said:
> --- Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > French and British policy have always been very
> > different, France has tended
> > more towards assimilationism (NB I'm not suggesting
> > one is better than the
> > other). But also the school policy is a general
> > secular policy that, for
> > historical reasons, bars any form of religious
> > dress. The UK (e.g.) lacks
> > such a policy.
>
> *Yes, but there was a case of a teacher sued because
> she told a Muslim student to take off the headscarf on
> the grounds that it was not part of the school
> uniform. There were other allegations made against the
> teacher, such as that she scratched the student's
> neck, of which she was later cleared:
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/story.jsp?story=485129
>
> But it does seem that at least some schools have a
> policy of banning headscarves. (Could the headscarf
> with the school uniform not be tolerated ?)
>
> > I don't know what happens in French hospitals; in
> > ours, young women doctors
> > who are Muslim wear black headscarves tied back and
> > -- in the summer heat --
> > open-toed clogs which they kick off to show (*gasp*)
> > bare feet.
>
> *I don't know about this being a specifically Muslim
> custom. I have never seen it among the Muslims in
> Bosnia. On the other hand, in some parts of China it
> seems to be quite common to take the shoes and other
> footwear off during the summer heat.
>
> > Otoh this country bans female genital mutilation and
> > is looking for ways to
> > enforce that ban more strongly, and if people who
> > believe in FGM don't like
> > that, *tough*.
>
> *FGM is emphatically NOT an Islamic practice - it is
> not ordained in the Kuran, or in the Sunnah of the
> Prophet, or in any Islamic texts that I am aware of.
> It is a practice of tribal patriarchal societies,
> today found mostly in Africa, and among Christians,
> Animists and Jews there as well as Muslims. It is
> tough that, for example, the Moller Okin essay on
> multiculturalism does not make this clear.
>
> Also a Muslim priest is in gaol here
> > for race hate speech
> > against Jews.
>
> *I am not familiar with the specifics of this case,
> but in general I do not think that hate speech should
> be held a punishable offence, among other reasons
> because the concept is extremely open to different
> interpretations. (It is different with incitement to
> violence, which lends itself to more precise
> definitions.)
>
> O.K.
>
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--
Steve Chilson
stevechilson@xxxxxxxxxxx
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