[lit-ideas] Re: Ethics - Frozen in time: the disabled nine-year-old girl ...
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:02:18 EST
Thanks for the link! I suppose most subscribers to the list simply felt the
bruhaha was so ridiculous that it wasn't worth bothering looking at. I felt
there were several elements to the situation, medically, ethically,
legally, that could be explored with some benefit. But whaddo I know.
Yes, temp is key to bread -- and I've never figured out exactly the right
place in the house to put said dough. My Mother (when I was young and she had
time on her hands instead of a cell phone or a cordless phone or e-mail)
made wonderful bread -- and pie-crusts I can never replicate. As a child,
helping kneed the bread on the wood block was an exceptionally pleasurable
sensory experience -- texture, aroma, a way to drum out stress <g>, and
somehow
oddly comforting. I adored the fragrance and feel of it. I tried to learn
her
secrets to making successful hand-made bread for years. Finally gave up. My
hand-made bread always ended up with the density of a brick loaf, and about
the same size. I have fallen back on non-yeast breads (banana nut bread
variations, e.g.), and my bread machine. I was both amused and non-plussed
many
years ago when bread machines were the latest fad, to read articles
indicating that owners and their close neighbors were terribly annoyed at the
"odor"
of bread rising and cooking.
Personally that was more of a perk for me than the actual bread! Again.
Whaddo I know.
Julie Krueger
reminiscing
========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Ethics - Frozen
in time: the disabled nine-year-old girl ... Date: 1/25/2007 11:54:58 A.M.
Central Standard Time From: _Ursula@xxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx)
To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
Hi Julie, you don't remember the parents names because they were never
identified. I typed 'ashley stunted growth and got lots of news sites.
I was a bit surprised that no one else commented on this story at the
time -- Alex had asked the original question. Here is her paren't
website...
http://ashleytreatment.spaces.live.com/
Bread is easy. My son has taken over most of the cooking and baking (I
get to wash the dishes...). His bread is better than mine. The
secret is in the temperature and the TLC. He's playing with poolish
now. I think it's googleable...
Best,
Ursula
JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx wrote:
> When I read the story I had very much the same reactions. I couldn't
> figure out why all the hype and furor. I'm interested -- do you still
> have a link to the parents' web-site? I've lost track of their names
> for googling purposes.
>
> I have never ever, ever had success with bread rising. What's the
> secret???
>
> I bought a bread machine. It takes care of the rising thing for me.
>
> Julie Krueger
>
> ========Original Message========
> Subj: *[lit-ideas] Re: Ethics - Frozen in time: the disabled
> nine-year-old girl who will remain a child*
> Date: 1/4/2007 9:03:28 P.M. Central Standard Time
> From: Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent on:
>
>
> An interestingly manipulative title. Her mental age is already frozen
> in time. Why get hung up on the fact that her body will also not
> mature? Stunting her body will not hamper her 'growth' any more than
> her damaged brain has already.
>
> I have been to the parents' website and have found their arguments
> convincing. I particularly found some of the emotional comments left
> by others thought provoking. One woman wrote of her 6 ft son with the
> mind of an 18 month old (those terrible two's, remember) and how
> difficult it was (for him and for her) not to be able to hold and
> comfort (and restrain) him in a way that parents of 18 month olds take
> for granted. Ashley will remain small enough to hold and comfort and
> rock and carry. I can't help but agree that that will improve her
> quality of life. The fact that there is a gray moral area between her
> case and cases of less disabled children where parents may also wish to
> make life-altering decisions for their children is no reason to oppose
> this decision.
>
> Some of the objectors have raised the specter of reopening the door to
> enforced sterilization. This, too, seems irrelevant to Ashley's case.
> The doctors have said that her mental age is 3 months. Leaving her
> reproductive capabilities intact can add nothing to her life or her
> dignity or her possibilities.
>
> It's also a question of where the 'self' lies. The outside world sees
> the 'self' from the outside. They see the body. And the medical
> interference with the natural growth of that is somehow seen as
> horrendous. Her parents are the ones who know her the best. They
> have, perhaps, seen past the body. And they've decided that the
> three-month old mind they've come to love does not belong in an adult's
> body, could not cope with adult emotions and adult physical changes,
> needs protection from fear and confusion.
>
> If we insist that her quality of life or freedom or dignity is somehow
> lessened by these decisions about her body, mustn't we entertain the
> thought that every woman who cannot have children is somehow incomplete,
> that every size-challenged person is somehow undignified. Or is it
> just the fact that she didn't make these decisions herself? Are her
> parents supposed to wait until she understands the question?
>
> Ashley will have to be carried everywhere she goes for the rest of her
> life. She will get carried a lot more if she's small. That's a huge
> plus -- huge enough to compensate for the minuses (if there are any).
>
> I can't see into her parents' motivations, of course, but even if they
> made these decisions for their own convenience and peace of mind, Ashley
> will still benefit.
>
> That's what I think tonight, at any rate. Other thinking still to come...
>
> Ursula
> watching her bread rise in North Bay
> --------------------------------------
> Alex Jorgensen wrote:
>
> > I would interested in what you think about this. It always amazes me
> > when supposed understandings of descency are brought to question - how
> > often so much seems, I wonder, taken with little consideration for the
> > solemn (and how issues of freedoms, rights, often lead us to, well,
> > selfishness).
> >
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1982370,00.html
> >
> > Frozen in time: the disabled nine-year-old girl who will remain a
> > child all her life
> > Ed Pilkington in New York
> > Thursday January 4, 2007
> > The Guardian
>
>
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