Lawrence, There are two dynamics at play here. On the one side are the Islamists, a small, but distinct minority of the muslim population. They have extreme views and, through pointing out the imagined outrages of Western society, aim to enlist the growing support of less extreme mulsims. On the other side we have people like yourself who point fingers at that small minority of muslims. You highlight them as representitive of the muslim community at large. Now, the strange thing is, both dynamics are moving in the same direction. You, as representitive of the vocal element of the right wing are adding to the stock of extreme fundamentalism. You are creating an enemy for yourself. Sensible? I think not. Simon ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:42 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Dutch support killer of van Gogh I should conclude, as most Europeans apparently will that all is as it should be and Europe should keep on trucking. In other words, not only is Europe asleep, but it can prove systematically why it ought to remain asleep. Got it. Of course none of this addresses the main point of Bawer's book. You are focusing on a minor point. He finds it ironic that you are paying the Islamists who destroy you. So do I. And as your note below explains, there is nothing you can do about it; which I find pathetic. Lawrence ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Ward Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:10 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Dutch support killer of van Gogh "That they are willing to pay the Muslims who are destroying them is a sign they are sleeping." 1. When anybody claims an entitlement there is no question on the application form that bears any resemblance to: Are you a murdering terrorist? 2. When those terrorists who claimed benefits did apply, they were not as yet murderers. 3. Not all muslims are terrorists. Even if they have extreme views and go on demos, they are not all terrorists. 4. Not all muslims are out to destroy the west. The vast majority work very hard and earn their money. Simon