[lit-ideas] Re: Do You Have a Moral Urgency?
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:50:00 -0400
George W. Bush declared victory in Israel. Is that what you mean, Stan?
> [Original Message]
> From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 8/17/2006 10:34:05 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Do You Have a Moral Urgency?
>
> Omar -
> You speak just like George W. Bush. Black is white. And white is black.
You
> should run for office, you're that good.
>
> Stan Spiegel
> Portland, ME
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Omar Kusturica" <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:03 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Do You Have a Moral Urgency?
>
>
> > Phil freely engages in making unsupported assertions
> > and then he expects me to spend my time and energy
> > refuting them. Simply, there is no evidence for the
> > claims that Hezbollah was using civilians as human
> > shields other than the statements of the IDF press
> > service and Egeland. This is refuted by the accounts
> > of the survivors as well as by the lack of Hezbollah
> > causalties at the sites where civilian casualties were
> > inflicted. With regard to the Qana massacre, even the
> > IDF later admitted that it could not give a coherent
> > explanation as to why that building was targetted.
> > Also, it is a fact that the Hezollah had killed more
> > Israeli soldiers than civilians, whereas Israel killed
> > many more civlians than Hezbollah fighters. All this
> > has been parrotted over and over in the articles I
> > posted as well as by myself. (See especially the
> > articles I posted in the thread "Rules of War.")
> >
> > Further, even the IDF did not claim that it was
> > targetting only the Hezbollah fighters; it said
> > repeatedly in public that it was targetting
> > infrastructure such as roads, bridges, factories,
> > installations etc. Where Phil is getting his supposed
> > "facts" is beyond me.
> >
> > As to the claim that: "Israel sent in its military
> > with rules of engagement that required a minimum of
> > civilian casualties, thereby endangering the lives
> > of its soldiers" this is complete nonsense. Israel
> > only brought in its ground troops after two weeks of
> > heavy bombings when most of Lebanese civilians had
> > already fled the South of the country.
> >
> >
> > Finally, as to Israel having supposably attained
> > rational objectives "to clear a buffer
> > zone from its border and force a peacemaking presence
> > to maintain peace" I reply that: 1) these were not the
> > objectives that were originally stated and 2) whether
> > Israel has indeed achieved this is highly doubtful.
> >
> > O.K.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Phil Enns <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> The facts:
> >>
> >> 1. Hezbollah fired more than a thousand rockets well
> >> beyond the
> >> attacking Israeli forces, targeting Israeli cities.
> >> Hezbollah targeted
> >> Israeli civilians. Israeli fire was directed where
> >> they believed
> >> Hezbollah fighters were hiding. Israel targeted
> >> Hezbollah fighters.
> >>
> >> 2. Hezbollah made themselves indistinguishable from
> >> the civilian
> >> population. Hezbollah endangered the lives of
> >> Lebanese civilians so
> >> that they could launch rockets aimed at Israeli
> >> civilians. Israel sent
> >> in its military with rules of engagement that
> >> required a minimum of
> >> civilian casualties, thereby endangering the lives
> >> of its soldiers.
> >> Israel endangered the lives of its soldiers so that
> >> there would be a
> >> minimum of Lebanese civilian casualties.
> >>
> >> 3. Hezbollah declared itself victorious because its
> >> fighters were able
> >> to successfully hide from the Israelis while at the
> >> same time
> >> terrorizing the Israeli civilian population. Israel
> >> declared itself
> >> victorious because it was able to clear a buffer
> >> zone from its border
> >> and force a peacemaking presence to maintain peace.
> >>
> >> Omar should feel free to indicate which facts have
> >> been refuted.
> >> Further, he should feel free to indicate other facts
> >> that would refute
> >> any claims I am making. Finally, he should do this
> >> himself.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >>
> >> Phil Enns
> >> Toronto, ON
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
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