That is, of martial law. J. Wager was mentioning Bacon and how he enjoyed torturing Nature -- Wager goes on to say that there is a male instinct towards the torture of the female. I disagree. I believe the first and dominating instinct is the male torture of the male. I was reading in Frontinus, Strategems, Loeb, for what I think is the first instance of torture -- I call this 'martial law' -- because, they are so much _harder_ than us civilians! The chapter is called, "How to retrieve information from the enemy" LIBER II: DE EXPLORANDIS CONSILIIS HOSTIUM On finding out the enemy's plans: "M.CATO IN HISPANIA" When Marcus Cato was in Spain QUIA AD HOSTIUM CONSILIA ALIA VIA PERVENIRE NON POTUERAT being unable otherwise to arrive at a knowledge of the enemy's plans, IUSSIT TRECENTOS MILITES SIMUL IMPETUM FAERE IN STATIONEM HOSTIUM he ordered three hundred soldiers to make a simultaneous attack on an enemy post RAPTUMQUE UNUM EX HIS IN CASTRA PERFERRE INCOLUMEM. to seize one of their men, and to bring him unharmed to camp. TORTUS ILLE OMNIA SUORUM ARCANA CONFESSUS EST. The prisoner, under torture, revealed all the secrets of his side." Cheers, JL ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com