There is too much in JLS' post for one reply, but here are some points for now - including some on misunderstandings on JLS's part. From: "Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx" Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx >>There is an underlying question of what kind of explanation 'Darwinism' is - what we might also describe as the question of its logical character, including the extent to which Darwinism is 'scientific' (or testable)." >To do that, we would need to symbolise the theory, and focus not on what the theory _states_ (the topic of the theory), but to abstract considerations like: -- observational terms/predicates vs. theoretical terms/predicates the nature of explanation, nomological models, falsificationist models axiomatic component empirical support, paradigm, research-programme, the nature of the evidence, theory-laden observation. and so on. i.e. the stuff that standard philosophers of science (Popper, Lakatos, Kuhn, or Hanson) have been interested all along.> It can, I think, be put more simply: it's a question of what testable/falsifiable consequences a certain formulation of 'Darwinism' ['D'] may have. A formulation of D as "survival of the fittest" may lack falsifiable consequences, especially if the only criterion of fitness is survival. But other D-type formulations may have falsifiable consequences: for example, that even a species where the gender ratio is 9:1 [whichever way] will over time evolve into one with a roughly 1:1 sex ratio [this is because mutations or deviations away from the 9:1 ratio will always be more successful in reproductive terms and so spread until an equilbrium of roughly 1:1 is reached: this can be be shown 'mathematically' but is also testable empirically]. >Well, Popper's claim to fame is indeed his falsificationism. But we should go one step earlier and reconsider how Popper's target of attack, inductionism, had explained (or not) the logical character of the 'Darwinian' explanation.> On the contrary, Popper argues, it is Lamarckism that has an inductive 'logical character'. Whereas D has a falsificationist/non-inductive/eliminativist 'logical character' [as per the 'jelly-point']. This superior, correct 'logical character' is one of the strong non-empirical grounds for preferring D over Lamarckism. [This argument is developed at several places in Popper's work]. >Once we have assessed how "Inductionism" or positivism explains or fails to justify the valid logical character of the Darwinian explanation can we consider whether Popper's thesis -- that Darwinism is not falsifiable, never mind verifiable.> Popper retracted his argument that D is not falsifiable (I believe I have posted on this before). His amended position is that while certain formulations of D are barely (if at all) testable (as per his earlier arguments), certain D-type formulations are testable. We should, therefore, distinguish specific D-type explanations that are testable by observation from D as a framework which suggests what type of explanation we should seek. As a framework positing what would be an acceptable 'explanation in principle', D may be not itself open to falsification and is not falsified simply because some specific D-type explanation is falsified. In other words, we need to distinguish D _qua_ metaphysical research programme from D _qua_ specific types of testable explanation. There is more to be said, particularly on reductionism. But we seem to be agreed on the 'jelly-point': D is not a reductive explanation of evolved characteristics, and in several senses, but particularly in that it does not explain those characteristics being as they are in a way that is entirely reducible to [or predictable, or deducible, from] 'selection pressures' [whereas the shape and size of the jelly may be entirely reducible to/predictable from the shape and size of the mould, as the entirely determinant 'selection pressure' on its shape and size]. Rather D gives a partial explanation of the endurance of certain characteristics (as against others) because they are more successful at avoiding elimination by the various selection pressures. This is much less a determinant explanation and allows for much greater contingency in explaining the course of evolution [e.g. how an asteroid disaster might wipe out a dominant species like the dinosaurs and set evolution on a different course]. It also allows that 'selection pressures' are often not so severe that only a very limited variety of life-forms could endure them. As Popper aptly puts it, even unfit and maladapted traits may succeed in the course of evolution - "at least until they fail". Donal Must dash Ldn