[lit-ideas] Re: Dark Thoughts on Iraq
- From: Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:18:36 EDT
In a message dated 9/30/2005 8:23:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
JE> . But I don't want to see an
JE> old-style isolationist US.
Eac> Hi, Judy...
Eac>
Eac> Would you explain why you would not?
by "old-style isolationist US" I mean the isolationism of the
Thirties. It's easiest to quote:
>Hitler came to power in January of 1933, the Second Great War began in
>1939, and America didnât join the war until December of 1941
perhaps that explains why I would not.
MB: Oh, okay. Yes. Well. Fine. You do have a point.
(I have a bad feeling that I'm about to face some facts...<g>)
Eac> Since we are so disliked everywhere, in some respects <g>,
Eac> I often think that would be not so bad...
alternatively you could look -- as of course many in the US do -- at
why "you" are "so disliked everywhere, in some respects", if, that is,
that is indeed correct.
(You have probably not seen a full list of countries who offered aif
after Katrina. Or perhaps that does not count.)
Well, isn't because we meddle so much? And, since apparently the 'powers
that be' are not able to restrain themselves, hiding out until we can retrain
them to behave seemed like it might make people in the rest of the world
happier with us.
and, yes...there was a lot of support and, actually, I think it did an
incredible amount of good in terms of those here who DO want the U.S. to
regress
back into a little world of their own.
(That was, of course, not the intent of those who gave, but it has happened.
It's rather interesting...)
Eac> I mean--we'd not be the so-called saviors any longer;
I don't know who calls you saviours
Oh, I think we call ourselves saviors. No doubt no one else does--but many
here in the U.S. do think that the U.S. 'gives' a lot to other countries to
help and assist (not really paying attention to the thought that we are all in
this world together...
Eac> we'd
Eac> be focusing on our own problems and taking care of our own
Eac> people;
I certainly hope so. You could start by protesting against cuts in
Medicaid to pay for Katrina aid relief.
MB: Oh, there's a thought!! <g> Okay, so maybe I'm the only one who did
do my part and wrote my Senator. Hard to tell. I still am figuring people out
and am not there yet.
Still, I got one fun letter in response from the one senator in our state
who is one of the few moderate Republicans and actually does NOT want those
sorts of cuts to happen. He usually loses and Bush does something to either
threaten or punish him. His wife is going to do fund-raising this year for
Republicans. I only hope that she releases funds only to the moderates.
I do hope that the other senator loses in the next election as he is one of
the Bush Bully Boys and we have a really possible Democratic potential in the
running. (She's currently our state auditor--she would be a great senator).
I, personally, do try to do what I can do. Most of the time I do not see
that happening too much with other people, though.
So, sometimes I do think that if we closed all the doors, put up the walls
and had the Big Boys begin to focus, we'd be better off. I think they have too
many distractions, sometimes. Too many pots to loot--and so, one strategy
would be to remove the temptation until they proved they could handle it
responsibly...or something like that.
Kind of like taking a kid who is not able to focus (too tired, too many
distractions, whatever) and holding his head still and saying "Look into my
eyes."
Eac> we'd let Others be grown-ups in their own countries
Eac> and
Eac> [hopefully] their own personal actions would be such that they
Eac> would move towards collective personal growth and development in
Eac> a healthy way without our meddling interference;
we think we do reasonably well right now, Marlena
MB: But, wouldn't it be SO much easier without our meddling? What if the
only choice was to have the U.S. in the world's playground but as a meddler or
to have the U.S. hiding out behind a wall trying to get itself put back into
shape so it could play well with others?
Would you really want us the way we are, now? It's not that everyone else
does so poorly now, it's that it sometimes at least *sounds* like everyone
would like us to just go away from everywhere...
Eac> we'd get
Eac> control, again, of our so-called global corporate world which is
Eac> draining the world dry and hurting the Earth;
you mean you could control your corporations better if they were
confined to the US? (now there's a millennial dream!)
MB: Well, again--I do like to dream! And, that was kind of a dream, I
grant you. More like a fantasy, maybe? It would be easier to get control,
though, if it took less time for them to loot and ruin in a small area and
then to
(hopefully) face the consequences of their own action. Kind of like grabbing
a kid knocking all the candy off the shelf in a store and placing the child
in a spot where the kid cannot do as much damage until he calms down and
focuses on what is causing the lack and limitation.
I think it would take some major work and, frankly, I'm not very confident
that the selfish souls in this nation even want to look at their actions. (it's
hard enough for someone like me to face myself when *I* mess up or act less
than my best...)
It also might be easier to figure out how to get control if we could get
them to stay put and let us figure out how to manage them...
Oh, fine. You can tell I don't have it all figured out yet!
Eac> we could create
Eac> that Wall so that the bright smart creative illegal immigrants
Eac> would have to begin True Reform in their Own Nation of Mexico (or
Eac> wherever--
this is satire, right?
MB: Um. Yes... Okay. Kind of. It does bother me, though, to think that
people run away from their own places because life is so horrible there. What
I wonder is if people would stay or come if things in Mexico were as great as
they are in Canada. (what Paul said) If they had a choice of staying in a
cool place like Mexico and living a great life would they still want to come
to the USA? I imagine that some would and some wouldn't.
It's either that or have all immigrant be legal and *make* those who are
hiring the illegal immigrants pay them living wages...even for those horrible
jobs that theoretically no one wants to do. I dislike knowing that they are
being taken advantage of -- that people are having to take jobs paying them a
pittance simply because they don't want to pay a decent wage. If I think
about it too much, I almost go crazy... and sometimes if I end up going down
that path, I end up thinking about how horrible life must be for them and
their
loved ones back in Mexico--if they are willing to live as slaves here being
taken advantage of by people--then what is life like for those in Mexico? Is
it really that horrible? Is there no one there fighting to reform Life there
so that those who live there won't *need* the money sent to them in order to
live a decent life?
Eac> okay, kind of tough love, but hey...we're talking
Eac> long-term health here of those they love and currently send
Eac> money home to assist...)
like the Irish and the Italians? perhaps you should send them home
MB: Well, I'm not sure we had too many standards regarding immigration at
that point for so many to get in illegally. I thought many were able to get
here legally...they had to work for a long time sometimes to pay for passage
and
then gradually paid for one member and then another to come (much like what
happens now even on the legal side of things for immigration).
I go to a friend's home on Sunday and as she is a major genealogy buff and
specializes in Italian genealogy, I'll find out more then...
Eac> ; Europe would become who it was born to
Eac> be
I don't know what it was born to be or what you think it's like right
now
MB: Well, I don't know, either, but I keep thinking that if the US would
just go away and not bother everyone that they'd be better off. And, for some
strange reason--I keep hearing that, too. Again--if the only choice is for us
to go away and not interfere and make messes or to keep interfering and
making messes--which is better? I mean--sure it would be nice if we would
somehow play well with all the others, but if those in charge will not...that
does
not seem to be a feasible choice...
Eac> [and that we long to visit
OK, you haven't been here
<g> No only to China...I am dreaming of going to the UK for the World
Jamboree in 2007, though. Or, just to come on a scouting pilgrimage...we can
stay
in Lord Baden-Powell's home, spend the night at Brownsea, etc. It would be
so grand...(But we have Seabase this summer first)
Eac> and, of course, there would still
Eac> be *some* visiting going on...]
by you, yes. Whether we would be allowed into the US is I suppose to
be decided.
MB: Since this is MY fantasy, I think I can say that there would be!! <g>
Eac> ; etc etc.
quite
MB: <g> I do like the way you write!
Eac> There is, as you all know, the part of me which IS an
Eac> isolationist. and, since I cannot fix everything (yet <g>), I'd
Eac> sometimes like to scale down so that we can fix what needs to be
Eac> fixed...feed those in our own neighborhoods, etc.
which would be a damn good idea.
MB: Finally!! I really needed some words of affirmation about some of my
thoughts! (Even if they were written when I was mulling things over and
pondering Life and People and such...)
Eac>
Eac> and, besides. I'm tired of hearing how horrible Americans
Eac> are...
so who are all these people who keep telling you how horrible
Americans are?
MB: That's an interesting statement. We hear it here SO much--mostly from
people from other countries who are visiting or working, I suppose. (I think
Andreas has even mentioned that in regards to those in his area, especially)
It's on the news, in the papers, people say that in regards to what it is
like when they visit overseas, etc. My friend who is in Italy and moving
back to NYC says that she pretends to be Italian alot...
Eac> the personality type of me that is not the puzzled 'why
Eac> don't they like me' says to just hole up and run away. Harden
Eac> the heart and shift the shoulder and focus on those who are my
Eac> own...
like you did till Pearl Harbor.
MB: HEY! Okay, fine. But, look what we have done to this world SINCE
THEN?? What's the 'good' of what we have done since then? I don't think that
those of us who communicate in the 'words of affirmation' get to hear that
very often...(and that is one of my primary ways of communication...sad to
say.)
Eac> isn't that the way of Confucius? To take care of 'the
Eac> family' only?
doesn't sound much like it to me
MB: Well, that was what I was told...I guess I'll have to do try to search
out a reference? Or does anyone else who might have read this far have a
better understanding of whether or not that is the Chinese/Confucius standard?
Eac> (Granted, part of me says get rid of the federal
Eac> government and just be nation-states as states, too...okay,
Eac> counties. Okay--we want separate from Kansas City. Eastern
Eac> parts of counties separate from Western. Or maybe just feudal
Eac> cities again...)
yes well, I'm an internationalist.
MB: <G> Yes, well. There's a thought...I suppose I'm a BIT of one. Or
maybe that was my past life. Hard to say since I'm not sure I remember it very
well... Still, you do expand my horizons so that is surely something-and I
do think it positive.
I always enjoy 'talking' with you!
Best,
Marlena in Missouri
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