ANd I will not bother to respond to JL's post since he feels compelled to
change the title of every thread into something that mentions Grice.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 5:09 PM, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Begging the question is a logical fallacy, meaning if I remember correctly
an argument that already assumes the truth of the conclusion. (Usually
through an unspoken premise, I would guess.) That said, it can be used
pretty naturally in a way that means raising the question, and again if I
remember correctly it tends to be so used in American English of the
journalistic variety. Perhaps we could see some examples that look
troublesome here, if there is any trouble at all.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Donal McEvoy <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
This usage has been going on for years. Michael Parkinson may be largely
responsible. Growing up I thought it meant "raises the question", with
"begs" being used as in "asks" and "asks" being used as in "raised" (is
this how it widened sense?). Only later did the narrower, stricter meaning
become known to me - i.e. of something that assumes what is being is
disputed e.g. to say God's miracles prove God's existence begs the question
of God's existence (unless their provenance can be proved independent of
any assumption of God's existence, which appears not the case).
For me, the problem may be that question-begging in the stricter sense is
a detectible argumentative flaw, and replacement of the narrower sense for
the wider therefore diminishes attunement to whether the flaw is present. I
say that from a logical, argumentative point of view. But, as to whether
loss of a linguistic sense based on a specific logical distinction leads to
loss to attunement to that underlying distinction, this of course begs the
Beggar of beliefs and questions
Currently irritated to a much greater extent by other things
*From:* "epostboxx@xxxxxxxx" <epostboxx@xxxxxxxx>
*To:* Lit-Ideas <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Wednesday, 28 December 2016, 11:13
*Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: Current Irritant
On 28 Dec 2016, at 03:45, david ritchie <profdritchie@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:is wrong with these people?
I keep hearing, “begs the question” for “raises the question.” … What
I’m glad to hear that someone else is irritated by this — I was beginning
to think that this was a long-accepted British English usage. I hear it
constantly from British interviewers and commentators and was unaware that
this particular rot hat set in across the pond as well.
But maybe its just us that have something wrong, David — i.e., we’re
getting old, and the language is (for better or for worse) moving on, as
languages do. (This is a prime example of the word ‘evolution’ and its
cognates meaning simply ‘change’ — not always for the better.)
'Begs the question’ is just the latest in an ever-longer-growing list:
‘hijacking’ when one clearly means an act of air piracy, ‘decimate’ when
one clearly means not just one of ten but the vast majority killed, ‘the
exception proves the rule’ when one is unaware ‘prove’ in this case clearly
means ‘test’ … (list members are requested to continue the list with ‘pet’
irritants of their own).
Of particular irritation to me is the use of ‘democratic’ to mean
‘egalitarian’. Just yesterday a commentator on the new philharmonic hall
in Hamburg wrote that the room was ‘democratic’ — meaning that one
experienced the same quality of sound regardless of where one sits. A
‘democratic’ concert hall — now that WOULD be something ...
eagerly awaiting commencement of concerts
in the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg, in
Answers on the back of a ten shilling postal order, please.
Hmm, I seem to have run out — perhaps you could replenish my supply.
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