[lit-ideas] Re: Coyotes, Rabbits and Western self-loathing

  • From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:56:22 +0000 (GMT)

Lawrence, you say


These Leftists were interested in whether Europeans might be committing
 suicide at a greater rate than Americans. It galled them to think this 
might be true.

this leftist (socialist, please) noted apparent factual inaccuracies (perhaps 
though stemming from different data bases) in Bruce Thornton's

 Suicide rates are equally revealing: in many European countries, 
suicide is the second leading cause of death, after accidents, and 
France's suicide rate is about twice that of the United States', as are 
Belgium's, Luxembourg's, Finland's Austria's, and Switzerland.

I see that in a later post, you say

Whether one obtains greater accuracy by invoking a European or 
non-European source for European suicide statistics is interesting. Who 
has the most to gain by misrepresenting these statistics? Thornton used a
 non-European source. It is apparently well known that accurate suicide 
statistics are difficult to obtain. Witness this UK problem: 

"Br J Psychiatry. 1975 Apr;126:301-8.  Suicide in Dublin: I. The 
under-reporting of suicide and the consequences for national statistics.

Certainly it is well known that suicide stats can be misleading.  That Dublin 
is not in the UK should be noted, as it's possible the "UK" problem here is 
largely an Irish (Eire) one, and certain that it will not really affect the 
(relatively low) UK suicide rate.  (The issue in this instance, well known 
among suicide researchers and, I would hope, all sociology students, is 
apparent underreporting and underrecording of suicide in Roman Catholic 
countries and milieux.  This has been known for decades, if not longer. It is 
pointed out *by Europeans*. It is for simple reasons of practicality normally 
ignored when comparative suicide rates are discussed.)  The general point 
holds, the suggestion that "European" stats )WHO stats) are uniquely flawed 
does not. The suggestion that I quote them for convenience is appalling.  I 
suggest you retract it.

Let me return to

the second leading cause of death, after accidents

this confused me. I'll omit the specific issue of teenage suicide and say that 
Carol's right, the ranking's not interesting. The number who commit suicide, 
is.  The reasons for that, are.  Rising suicide rates (as in the USA) are. That 
the USA has an above average suicide rate (nih.gov), had even before its rate 
rose, perhaps is. Etc.. 

you say

I admit to being opposed to the EU Project.



 I have said as much in previous notes. It didn't surprise me to read 
Thornton's reference. It would surprise me to learn that this situation is as 
rosy as official European statistics indicate.  

WHO stats.  WHO stats used, your reply to me says, *by Thornton*.  I used  

--- On Sun, 21/11/10, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Coyotes, Rabbits and Western self-loathing
To: "Lit-Ideas" <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sunday, 21 November, 2010, 7:42


To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html

Other related posts: