My apologies Eric. I checked back and found the message I remembered and see now that I remembered it imperfectly. Paul Stone expressed the "dog-beating words" I remembered and not you. Lawrence At 08:28 PM 6/2/2006, you wrote: >Eric Yost wrote: > EY>>The actual owner of a dog does have to establish an "alpha" EY>>relationship with the dog. That's why LH's engineer acquaintance had EY>>to give up his guard dog: the man was too old to effectively dominate EY>>a large and aggressive dog. > EY>Oh, really? Do you think establishing who's the alpha dog requires EY>wrestling with the dog? PS> Sometimes it DOES. Some very big, strong, alpha dogs need to get their ass kicked by the owner before the deference happens. If you ever see a well behaved pit-PS> bull terrier or a rotty, chances are their owners DID kick their ass when they were younger, but still big. PS>Paul -----Original Message----- From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Yost Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 8:58 AM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Can't have a gun? Get a dog LH: Showing a dominant dog that you are boss is not dog-beating. Eric used "dog-beating" terms but I assumed he was speaking figurative. I said that. NO, I DID NOT USE DOG-BEATING TERMS. BELOW ARE MY EXACT COMMENTS ON THE MATTER. SOMEONE PLEASE FIND "DOG BEATING TERMS" IN IT. PEOPLE ARE SO USED TO PROJECTING THEIR PREFAB STUFF INTO MY WRITING, THEY NO LONGER EVEN BOTHER TO FIND OUT WHAT I AM ACTUALLY WRITING. ARRG!! ______________ I think Omar said he liked cats. That's why the concept of "dominating" seems so foreign to him. You can't dominate a cat...you merely bore them by trying. The actual owner of a dog does have to establish an "alpha" relationship with the dog. That's why LH's engineer acquaintance had to give up his guard dog: the man was too old to effectively dominate a large and aggressive dog. Cats think they are human. Dogs, on the other hand, think you are a dog. Dogs expect you to tell them their place in the social hierarchy. For example, you can't let a dog enter a room first, because that is what alphas do, and you would be essentially telling the dog that it is the boss.