[lit-ideas] Re: Bears, oh my!

  • From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:26:05 -0500

Sam Parmia is by no means the first to research the
what-happens-to-consciousness-as-in-near-death-experiences thing
scientifically.  There are a couple books I've read on the subject which I
think good enough to post here:

One I have touted several times over the last few years on this list --

"Why God Won't Go Away;  Brain science & the Biology of Belief", by Andrew
Newman M.D. and Eugene D'Aquili, M.D., Ph.D.

The title is somewhat misleading -- the book is, essentially, a scientific
discussion of mind/brain, the physiological and philosophical, in fairly
good depth, written by self-avowed skeptics of anything numinous.  I find
myself reading it over again, over the years.

Closer to the Light:  Learning from the Near-Death Experiences of Children"
by Melvin Morse, M. D.

What's intriguing about this book, to me, is that it is a series of
interviews with children who were so close to death that Doctors were ready
to "call it" at any minute.  The interviews are not comprised of leading
questions, but simply an invitation by this Doctor to the patient to tell
what happened to them.  Some are quite young, and their description of their
experience demonstrates that -- "you sucked me back into my body!", e.g.
The kids come from various backgrounds -- religious, militantly atheistic,
agnostic with no prior discussion in their lives of religion...and many so
young they would not have the first notion of what some Dr. might "want" to
hear or would be prompting them to say.  All talk about seeing things or
being aware of things that were happening to them and that were happening in
their room while they were in this near-death state. They wouldn't have had
any way of knowing what transpired....but the details in each and every case
are born out as true by the people who were in the room.

I don't know what it all means (although there are more things under the
sun....), but I have two guesses:  1) Science just has not caught up with
reality and probably never will, and 2) all evidence points me to a larger
form of "real" and "conscious" than we are often comfortable with.  When
skeptical scientists feel compelled to write about their scientifically
demonstrable and empirical observations, I can't write it off.

Just my two cents.

Julie Krueger

On 9/13/07, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>  >>I only read the blurb....
> I thought as much.
> >>Damaging something while expanding it (i.e., drugs) seems a
> contradiction in terms.<<
> I don't see the contradiction, but then, maybe I don't know what you mean
> by "expanding".
> Mike Geary
> Memphis
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Andy <min.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:08 PM
> *Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: Bears, oh my!
> and that didn't entice me to read further.  I had read or heard quite a
> long time ago that the NDE was replicated in the laboratory.  That's why I
> said it's something that might be wired into the brain and tripped by death,
> or by however they did it in the lab.
> A different issue completely, but there's an impending huge problem with
> Mexican drug cartels along the border.  They're an extremely sophisticated
> operation and growing fast, armed to the teeth with the latest guns and
> technology.  It's fueled by American demand (we're the world's largest
> consumer), and, ironically, the wall they're building is making it worse by
> making it now lucrative for the drug cartels to recruit those crossing the
> border to carry drugs in with them.  Drug demand is also growing very
> quickly in Mexico itself.  I doubt too many people's consciousness has
> expanded because of it.
> *Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
> The article wasn't about drug use or expanded consciousness ( or
> unexpanded consciousness), it was about the causes of Near Death
> Experiences.  The article argues that they're caused by glutamates or
> endorphins or a-endopsychosin and other chemicals produced BY THE BRAIN.
> Maybe you might want to read the article again.
> Meditation and yoga might well result in mental and physical changes that
> expand (I prefer 'alter') our *awareness*" as you suggest, but they do so by
> causing chemical changes in the brain.  There's no reason to believe that
> ingesting psychotropic drugs won't have the same effect.  Drug use might be
> dangerous to your health and welfare, but to dismiss the ability of certain
> drugs to expand consciousness is just wrong.  It tells me that you
> haven't yet gotten your hands on the right drugs, that's all.
> Mike Geary
> Memphis
>  ------------------------------
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