[lit-ideas] Barbara Allen (Was: Armenius (Is: Geary))

From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 00:06:25 EDT
"Colourful Words" -- and other hateful  collocations
 
In a recent conference, Timothy Williamson  was lecturing on 'The 
Demonstrative of Pejoratives" -- pretty interesting talk,  relying a lot on 
Frege and 
others who would speak, here, of the 'colour' of a  word (rather than its 
'sense', 'reference', or even 'force' -- "Farbung").  Williamson, who is a 
Brit, but 
born in the 'barbarous' land of Sweden, used  'pejorative' names to refer to 
various ethnic groups, to illustrate his talk --  notably "Hun". 
 
"Barbaros" moi dokei.
 
R. Paul writes:
 
"I did not say that 'barbarian' was never  an offensive epithet in Ancient 
Greece. I said that initially it wasn't, and then gradually it was."
 
Good. This allows me to share this letter by Philostratus.  He uses the word 
'barbaros', but I have -- if I were to follow R. Paul's  'time-relative' 
argument -- to _date_ the letter *before* I would know if the  intention is 
offensive or not!
 
        Dear  ...
 
            From  what land are you? Tell me, 
            since  you are so impervious to love.
            A  barbarian you seem to be, from 
            that  dread altar and from those
            inhospitable  rites. So then it is
            within  your power to observe your
            ancestral  custom; and if you are 
            unwilling  to spare my life, here's
            the  sword. I am not asking for
            mercy  -- have no fear of that! Even
            for  a wound I yearn.
 
Now some of the Greek:
 
From what land are you?
Pothen ei? 
 
Since you are so impervious to love.
hoth'houtos ategktos ekheis pros erota.
 
A barbarian you *seem* to me to be.
Barbaros moi dokeis.
 
dread altar
ekeinos bomos
 
inhospitable rites
axenon thumaton.
 
The problem is that, as the Loeb editor, notes, this must  be a metaphor:

"A barbarian you seem to me to be." 
('Barbaros moi dokeis'). It is an utterance that resists  Gricean analysis 
_literally_ (For, the dull argument goes, if the Utterer is  _aware_ that the 
Addressee is a 'barbarian' then what's the point in  communicating in a 
language 
that She will not understand?)
 
 
"I did not say that 'barbarian' was never  an offensive epithet in Ancient 
Greece. I said that initially it wasn't, and then gradually it was." 
 
Good point. This actually relates to the discussion as to  how offensive 
one's accent can be to oneself. The English speak of 'saddling'  for this, 
 
   "Imagine being saddled with an accent [face,  surname, father, etc.] like 
*that*" 
 
But I can't imagine what a saddle has to do with it. It is  sad that the 
Romans incorporated "barbarus" without a thought. I was told that  it possibly 
meant "Turkish" since "bar-bar-bar" is the sound of the Turkish  language in 
the 
wild, rather than say, Gaelic -- but Ritchie, who knows, can  correct me about 
that. 
 
Who was the _first_ to use 'barbaros' and referring to  who? (Sorry I haven't 
checked the Liddell/Scott).
Cheers,
 
PS. Is "Geary" (in Loeb) then just an adj. from 'gear' the  noun? And why is 
it opposed to "Tillerman"? 
 
Why is it that some American (and also Brit) fathers allow  the mothers of 
their female children to be call them "Barbara" (as in "Barbara  Walters"). Why 
is not the male version even _unfashionable_?
 
JL




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[lit-ideas] Barbara Allen (Was: Armenius (Is: Geary))

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