[lit-ideas] Re: Ayers and Palin
- From: eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 09:37:24 -0400
Hi, Lawrence,
I know you live in a more rural part of the country, so you probably
don't have neighborhood block parties, neighborhood events. Both Ayers
and Obama have lived in the Hyde Park area of Chicago. When he was
running for Senate, he did not "announce" or get his campaign for the
STATE launched in Ayer's home which was the host home for the
neighborhood block party. Obama was a scheduled speaker there (we have
such parties in this area often--and we are a suburban area--). He was
being introduced as the Senate candidate--to those in the neighborhood.
I know some of my neighbors well. Others I know just enough about them
to chat with them (usually if we all meet at the mailbox or if I go to
someone's party or we all happen to talk about yards or some mundane
sort of topic). Some of those I don't know, I would like to know
better if we ever all get the time from our own everday lives. Others I
already know enough about to know that I don't really want to get too
close to them-but would not ever say so as that might destroy the
friendly neighborliness in my subdivision.
Here is some additional information. One of the statements by Ayers
does seem to be taken a bit out of context--please note it. He does
not appear to regret his protesting of the Vietnam War; he does appear
to regret the bombing side of it. Easy to take things out of cont
ext,
though.
As one who is in the process of selecting presenters for a Ms
President's Patch program (Girl Scouts), I'm not telling the other
presenters who the other ones are. Alot of times when we plan
panels/discussions, we just ask different people to come present
different sections of what the 'whole' is that is being orchestrated.
(That was for his being on a panel with Obama for the Chicago Public
Library) At the end of the planning process, we'll get an agenda out
to everyone - but when we are trying to set it all up, that does not
happen. I'm on planning committees for two community festivals in my
area (both of which have various speakers involved in my part of the
programming--I also help suggest/provide the entertainers but primarily
am working to get presenters to talk about, for one event, the value of
community; how one gets started in a local community political career;
value of paying taxes [how many people have EVER heard anything good
about paying taxes, I always ask. Not a single kid ever raises a
hand--and yet, they are in a library--and about to head to a park --
all of which are paid for by taxes...and the head of the town's Parks &
Rec department then details out exactly what it is his department does
for all ages--and I ask them if the next time they hear a whine about a
pothole on a road that they imagine what it would be like to have
potholes all ove
r the place--or no road at all...and why do I have to
pay for the road by their house, anyway--my parents live in a rural
area and each family had to agree to pay for their portion of the road
before the county would pave it for them. It took years before everyone
would agree--and it's so much nicer to visit them. Or, why should
someone who has no kids help pay for a public school or what if they
can afford to send their kids to a private school--should they care
about any of you in public school? [and most of those kids ARE in
public school and in a relatively depressed area--it would be a
horrible hardship for their families to be able to send their kids to a
private school--but I digress. My main point is that I also get other
speakers to talk about other things--and they have no idea, sometimes
until the day before, what the topics are...My topic is to fulfill a
very specific requirement in Citizenship in the Community--a Boy Scout
merit badge...not just preaching <g>)
McCain and Palin spoke in my suburb yesterday. Three members of my
son's debate class went to support McCain (one of which came back
wearing a t-shirt that said the Top Ten Things to Like About
Liberals--and the tenth thing was "They will die someday"...not sure if
McCain, then, is guilty of wanting liberals to DIE by association (and
what does that say about the kid--who my son likes but totally thinks
he=2
0sometimes crosses the line...hm...will sitting near him in debate
class come back to haunt my son? Hm...should I withdraw my son from
debate class? Should Obama have MOVED from a home that he/his wife
picked out most likely BEFORE they found out that Ayers lived in their
neighborhood? Should everyone else in that neighborhood have done so?
(esp since both Ayers and his wife are university professors now? She,
a former Weatherman, teaches at Northwestern Law School, even...doubt
the realtor told them that they were former Weatherman as she drove
them around the neighborhood...)
I really would like to like Pallin. I really really would. I probably
would like her--as a person. But--just as we walked around the US
Capitol a couple of years ago and we had to talk about the differences
in staff choices for our two Senators and then one of the
Representatives--we decided that we would not decide if we liked the
Senators solely based on how pleasant or mean their staffers were...one
of the senators had wonderfully friendly staffers and the other had
bully boys who were extremely rude. Fortunately, we also went to the
US Rep [not in our district but the one we grew up with who also is
deep into the Intelligence Committee world so the members of my family
in the military/spy world were okay visiting his office and as he is
big in Boy Scouts, my son was too--and he is of the same political
p
arty as the senator who had the mean young men who staffed her
office---and his staffers were the best.) But we talked about how
though in our nation, personality is almost always everything--it ought
not be the main decider for support. (though it was very hard...and
fortunately we are very happy with both our senators even though they
are each from opposite parties--they care about my state)
I do understand Palin pulling influence and money to build a sports
complex in her small town--perhaps the school district was not willing
to open its fields/gym for community teams (ours do, here, but we are
very community minded--perhaps her town is not). I have a harder time
with her taxing food (there had been none) when there surely were older
adults who couldn't go out and hunt like her family did to put meat on
the table. I have a harder time with her building the complex and
leaving the town in debt of over 22 million. (we tend to pay as you
go, on a local level, here--but I live in a more fiscally responsible
community even though my state and country are no longer that way...)
I do not think much of her management style if she did a 'loyalty test'
in asking at a council meeting the process of censoring books--she says
that is all it was; she was not really interested in specific books.
To me, that is a very poor management style and shows she is very much
into power-control i
ssues which often get in the way of looking
long-term at whatever entity you are in charge with. (We had this
conversation at my work the other day--my boss and our HR director were
chatting with me about some other stuff and we wandered into how
different it is when someone CAN retire but chooses to continue to
work--and how things that used to bother the fellow they were talking
about no longer do so and he could discuss things in s a different
manner. We all agreed it was because the power-control issues were
taken out of it and he was able to look at things more long-term. Some
people can do that--if they embrace their shadows and move through
them; but most people simply freak at the thought of it and everything
is about challenge... And, I also have a hard time because though I
was on the fence with McCain, I feel that he has had to turn into a
pretzel in order to get this nomination--and bowing to the Far Far
Right (both the pro-life world who said they'd tell their people to
stay home if he didn't choose her--see Richard Land/James Dobson--but
also the neo-cons of which she would appear to be one...and I don't
have a problem with people asking for favor from G-d, but they ought to
be open to knowing that there is a bit more wisdom than they can
possibly see--and again, telling G-d what to do instead of asking for
wisdom is another power-control issue and it worries me.
..) But, I'd
still like to like her. Like her, I have had to endure stupid men's
comments about my pregnancy...and besides, she wears glasses. I like
that. But, *I* hunt, fish, etc--but do not think it very sporting to
do it from the air...and I do like the polar bears and they'd be saying
goodbye if she wins her lawasuit. (Oh, i'l inlude that piece--also
shows how closely aligned she is with the oil industry. I'd still like
to like her...but in the areas that *I* am a conservative, she is not.
In the areas where I am more of a liberal, she is not. And, based on
how McCain has twisted himself, I do not think he will be able to
control her--or her power-brokers [I think her management style reminds
me a bit of Cheney's--except that I think he came in a with very
specific agenda and he has strong-armed much of it through. I think of
the same for her--esp when, though I sympathize with her wanting to
make her ex-brother-in-law lose custody of his kids...it simply was an
abuse of power [but I also do think kids should be allowed
relationships with both parents, anyway--again, more conservative than
Pallin is there...but to then fire the guy who wouldn't play that game
with her and refused to fire a guy who might have been a rotten husband
but a decent trooper and probably a better father than some or better
than not having one at all...ouch. Again, power-control issues. I just
don't think McCain can handle her...he could have once, perhaps, but
not now. He's changed too too much and wants this too too badly...) I
hink it is more a Palin/McCain ticket now, though. I think any of his
stances will get 'lost' in light of hers...and that of the worldview
she has apparently embraced. But, it's too bad. I would have liked
to have voted for her.
Best,
Marlena in Missouri
Anyway, this is from USA Today. Come to some of the neighborhood
parties that I go to...(and I get invited, as well, to OTHER
neighborhood parties just 'cause I know lots of people who like to have
parties <g>...) I also know that on my library's board, there are some
viewpoints that clash--it makes our board healthy and keeps things in
balance. Just because you are on a board together does NOT (I've been
on boards of stuff--you might be 'friendly', but not often 'friends'...)
How their paths crossed
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-25-ayers_N.htm
When Obama was asked about Ayers in an April debate, he said, "the
notion that … me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40
years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values
doesn't make much sense."
After that debate, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley released a statement
saying he doesn't condone what Ayers did in the 1960s. "It was a
difficult time, but those days are long over
," he said.
Ayers and Obama have moved in some of the same circles:
•In 1995, Ayers hosted a brunch for Obama, who was running for the
Illinois Senate.
The ad says this meeting launched Obama's political career. Quentin
Young, a physician who was there, says it was a typical Hyde Park event
and to imply otherwise is "guilt by simultaneously being in the same
place."
•In 1997, they were on a juvenile justice panel sponsored by the
University of Chicago. They were on a 2002 panel on intellectualism
that was co-sponsored by the Chicago Public Library.
•In 1997, the Chicago Tribune published a blurb from Obama about books
he was reading. Obama said he was reading Ayers' A Kind and Just
Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court.
•From 1999-2002, both men were on the board of the Woods Fund, a
Chicago foundation that makes grants to arts and civic groups. Obama
left the board in 2002; Ayers remains on it.
Laura Washington, chairwoman of the Woods Fund board, says suggestions
of close ties are "an attempt to demonize Bill as a way of damaging
Barack Obama."
•Ayers gave $200 to Obama's 2001 state Senate campaign.
No regrets or apologies?
Ayers did not respond to interview requests. Federal charges for
crossing state lines to incite riots and conspiracy were dropped
because of prosecutorial misconduct. He was in hiding for years after
three Weathermen=2
0died in 1970 when bombs they were making exploded.
In a New York Times story published by coincidence on Sept. 11, 2001,
about his memoirs, Fugitive Days, he said, "I don't regret setting
bombs. … I feel we didn't do enough." After that comment was raised in
the April debate, Ayers posted his 2001 reply to the New York Times
story on his blog. "I said I had a thousand regrets, but no regrets for
opposing the war with every ounce of my strength," he wrote.
and this is the article about her speaking to the church:
From adn.com The An
Iraq war, gas line God's will, Palin said
MINISTRY STUDENTS: Governor asked them to pray for troops, pipeline.
By GENE JOHNSON
The Associated Press
(09/04/08 01:50:16)
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church
that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task
that is from God."
In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate
also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion
natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."
Palin asked the students to pray for the troops in Iraq and noted that
her eldest son, Track, was expected to be deployed there.
"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God,"
she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for,
that there is a plan and that plan is God'
s plan."
A video of the speech was posted at the Wasilla Assembly of God's Web
site before finding its way on to other sites on the Internet.
Palin told graduating students of the church's School of Ministry,
"What I need to do is strike a deal with you guys." As they preached
the love of Jesus throughout Alaska, she said, she'd work to implement
God's will from the governor's office, including creating jobs by
building a pipeline to bring North Slope natural gas to North American
markets.
"God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that
gas line built, so pray for that," she said.
"I can do my job there in developing our natural resources and doing
things like getting the roads paved and making sure our troopers have
their cop cars and their uniforms and their guns, and making sure our
public schools are funded," she added. "But really all of that stuff
doesn't do any good if the people of Alaska's heart isn't right with
God."
Palin attended the evangelical church from the time she was a teenager
until 2002, the church said in a statement posted on its Web site. She
has continued to attend special conferences and meetings there.
Religious conservatives have welcomed her selection as John McCain's
running mate.
Rob Boston, a spokesman for Americans United for Separation of Church
and State, lamented Palin's comments.
"I miss the days when pastors deli
vered sermons and politicians
delivered political speeches," he said. "The United States is
increasingly diverse religiously. The job of a president is to unify
all those different people and bring them together around policy goals,
not to act as a kind of national pastor and bring people to God."
The section of the church's Web site where videos of past sermons were
posted was shut down Wednesday, and a message was posted saying that
the site "was never intended to handle the traffic it has received in
the last few days."
(Got this from from Net-Gold)
Oil Group Joins Alaska in Suing To Overturn Polar Bear Protection
CHICAGO -- The American Petroleum Institute and four other business
groups filed suit Thursday against Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne
and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director H. Dale Hall, joining
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's administration in trying to reverse the
listing of the polar bear as a threatened species.
On Aug. 4, the state of Alaska filed a lawsuit opposing the polar
bear's listing, arguing that populations as a whole are stable and that
melting sea ice does not pose an imminent threat to their survival. The
suit says polar bears have survived warming periods in the past. The
federal government has 60 days from the filing date to respond.
One of the plaintiff in Thursday's lawsuit, the National Association of
Manufacturers (NAM), lauded the choice o
f Palin as the Republican vice
presidential nominee for reasons including her advocacy of Alaskan oil
and gas exploration, which many fear could be affected by the bear's
protected status.
NAM and the petroleum institute were joined in the lawsuit by the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce, the National Mining Association and the American
Iron and Steel Institute. They object to what they call the "Alaska
Gap" in relation to the special rule the federal government issued in
May in conjunction with the polar bear's protected status. The rule,
meant to prevent the polar bear's status from being used as a tool for
imposing greenhouse gas limits, exempts projects in all states except
Alaska from undergoing review in relation to emissions.
<snip>
There are now at least four federal lawsuits challenging aspects of the
polar bear listing. In addition to the suits filed by Alaska, the
industry groups and the Center for Biological Diversity, the
trophy-hunting group Safari Club International filed suit opposing a
federal ban on importing skins or other "trophies" of polar bears
killed in Canada.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/30/AR2008083001538.html?nav=rss_nation/science
or
http://tinyurl.com/6xu7qp
The entire article can be read at the above URL.
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