Lawrence, this is where you're wrong. France never wanted to be a multicultural society. They needed workers to do the jobs the French didn't want to do, so they imported people. The problem happened when the imported people had children, the children were born and grew up in France. They were French, they spoke French, but they were not given any of the rights of French citizens. They were shut up in housing so inferior even the police wouldn't go there. They had inferior education, minimal job opportunities, and generally few or no options. They wanted a piece of the French pie, as in education and jobs, and were denied, so they rioted. To say the French wanted multiculturalism is just factually incorrect, misinformed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 3/2/2006 7:20:20 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves I looked at your sites. The following from UNESCO is clearer about the status of multiculturalism in France: http://portal.unesco.org/shs/en/ev.php-URL_ID=2779&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html This abstract will refer you to page 77 of a 104 page report on Multiculturalism from the International Journal on Multicultural Societies, (IJMS), Vol 5, No. 1. France is described as a de-facto Multicultural society. One of your articles says they aren?t really; which is what I wrote. The French boots on the ground don?t accept multiculturalism. I used a French word ?sabots? rather than boots or galoshes, but I assumed that sentence would be understood. I still don?t know what your problem is. France wanted to be a Multicultural society. Multiculturalism fits one of the modern Liberal ideals. Multiculturalism doesn?t work. It isn?t working in France and it isn?t working in Holland. I don?t believe it will work anyplace. Lawrence From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of JUDITH EVANS Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:50 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves Ah. I see. Your ideas about France and multiculturalism come from frontpagemag.com. It's my sense that they either don't understand the French *anti* multicultural heritage or seek to ignore it. I quote someone whose politics I don't know, who does seem to know about France: " The essential point is that multiculturalism has never been tried in France. On the contrary, France's problems are a manifestation of the failure of its flawed attempt at integration over half a century or so. " http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/11/14/1131951095194.html Below is an indirect link (search hit 1) to a piece by Marty Schain ("Politics, immigration and multiculturalism in France and the United States"): you might find it instructive. http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=France+%2Bmulticulturalism+%2BSchain&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=my-vert-web-top&x=wrt&meta=vc%3D Judy Evans, Cardiff