[lit-ideas] Re: As Far As I Know (Not Far)
- From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
In a message dated 4/30/2013 2:12:22 P.M. UTC-02, donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx
writes:
"Anyone who thinks the sense of "As far as I know..." in standard English
usage is "ironic" [or paradoxical], does not understand the sense of the
phrase in standard English where it is used unironically and with no sense of
paradoxicality.Only a philosopher hell-bent on imposing their stipulated
sense of 'know' on the community of speakers of English, might mistakenly
detect some "irony" or "paradoxicality" in such an expression. But then isn't
this the way? The philosopher begins by appealing to the sense of standard
usage and ends up stipulating a sense to standard usage different to its
actual sense....as far as I know anyway."
And thanks to R. Paul, U. Stange, and E. Yost for their further interesting
comments.
---
The issue _is_ complex.
Consider Grice's maxims:
1. Do not say what you believe to be false.
2. Do not say what you lack adequate evidence for.
3. Be brief.
At one point Grice considers, "The lady doth protest too much". But in this
case, admittedly, the effect of the "as far as I know" preface is that of
'weakening' the claim.
----
Until we get the 'logical form' of "as far as I know" I realise that in
fact the expression does NOT contradict Plato's view of knowledge as justified
true belief.
For,
consider:
"I know" to be EQUIVALENT to "I'm not wrong"
I know = I'm not wrong.
Now, we replace,
1. As far as I know, it is raining.
2. As far as I'm not wrong, it is raining.
----
I.e. the phrase, 'as far as I know', confirms, rather, a view of knowledge
as echoed by Grice when he writes:
"Here we look to the people in the past who have suggested that the
STANDARD, or crucial, feature of 'know' is that IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING, you
cannot
BE WRONG."
---
There are further considerations.
I agree with R. Paul that the use of 'know' is performative (he does not
use the label) or as J. O. Urmson would prefer, 'parenthetical'.
In this respect, it parallels the use of "you know" used in frequent
conversation. As per lyrics in "Salad Days"
Jane: We'll never be able to break the spell
Timothy: The magic will hold us still.
Jane: Sometimes we may pretend to forget
Timothy: But of course we never will.
Three perfect years -
Jane: Perhaps there'll more?
Life's only beginning you know
Timothy: Oh yes it's not that I want to stay.
It's just that I don't want to go.
When Jane says:
"Life's only beginning, you know"
she may well have said, "Life's only beginning, as far as YOU know".
i.e. the entailment seems the same -- or not.
--- But back to
"as far as I know"
Actually, it seems the proper construction in
"so far as I know", or even more strictly:
"in so far as I know".
----
There is an element of conditionality here:
"provided I'm not wrong in stuff, it is raining".
----
In a way, "as far as I know" does NOT introduce the type of clause that
philosophers are interested in: the 'that'-clause, as Austin calls it.
For surely it would be otiose to say:
"As far as I know that the cat is on the mat, the cat is on the mat".
Rather, the expansion seems to be:
"As far as I know _stuff_, the cat is on the mat".
Now, why would someone (perhaps other than Geary) may want to qualify a
claim with "afaik"?
-----
The effect is the opposite to "The Lady Doth Protest Too Much" that Grice
considers:
"A wants to know whether p, and B volunteers not only the information that
p, but information to the effect that it is certain that p, and that the
evidence for its being the case that p is so-and-so and such-and-such. B's
volubility may be undesigned, and if it so regarded by A it may raise in A's
mind a doubt as to whether B is as certain as he says he is ("Methinks the
lady doth protest too much"). BUT if it is thought as designed, it would be
an OBLIQUE [via implicature] way of conveying that it is to SOME DEGREE
controversial whether or not p."
--- Ditto, mutatis mutandis, for
"as far as I know".
---
Yost refers to "to the best of my knowledge" which compares.
Not that it's hardly (except perhaps in Geary's idiolect), "to the worst of
my knowledge" -- cfr. Popper on the poverty of historicism.
Another colloquial phrase that also confirms Grice's dictum, "IF YOU KNOW
SOMETHING, you cannot BE WRONG" is:
"for all I know"
Note that since Omar K. was quoting from Socrates, the paradox of McEvoy's
analysis becomes transparent.
For Socrates claims:
"I only know I know nothing."
The addition of "So far as I know, I only know I know nothing" results in a
collapse of rationality that we are NOT willing to ascribe to Socrates. Q.
E. D., the analysis of 'afaik' confirms Grice's implicature.
Grice notes that the phrase,
"as far as I know"
can be compared to
"as far as I can see".
As he writes:
"So, at least, so far as I can see (not far, I think), there is as yet no
reason not to accept Modified Occam's Razor"
(Grice 1989: 49.)
Ursula is right that 'fur' should be preferred, qua spelling, to 'far',
since this is a metaphorical implicature.
Grice uses 'so far as I know' in connection with Bradley.
He is discussing Searle's alleged refutation of Austin (in "Modifications
and Aberrations", in British Analytic Philosophy):
Grice notes:
"I do not find Searle's knock-down argument against the Oxonian
philosophers convincing."
"His argument derives the truth of a crucial statement (when the suspect
condition is unfulfilled) from the alleged falsity of the statement's
negation, given the same circumstances."
"Now, it is is certainly the case that it would be FALSE to say of a man
using a match, "He is now lighting his cigarette with a 20-dollar bill" and
so it is true that he is NOT lighting a cigarette with a 20-dollar bill."
"But," Grice adds, "so far as I know, no philosopher
since the demise of the influence of Bradley
has been in the least inclined to deny this.
The matter is otherwise with the examples which are relevant to recent
philosophy".
----
In brief,
to recapitulate:
The replacement of the 'p' clause as if to follow the 'so far as I know'
makes the phrase MORE otiose than it already is:
"So far as I know that no philosopher since the demise of the influence of
Bradley has been in the least inclined to deny this, no philosopher since
the demise of the influence of Bradley has been in the least inclined to
deny this."
----
Since it is OBVIOUS that ceteris paribus, A, in holding a conversation
with B, will abide for claims of the 'afaik' type, to _state_what is
implicaturally so obvious can only confuse.
Cfr.
"So far (not far, I guess) so good."
"so far, perhaps, so good."
---
Which is correct:
“So far as I know” or “As far as I know”?
More on this below.
Incidentally, note that "as far as I'm wrong" is unacceptable, further
stressing Grice's point:
"*As far as I'm wrong, it is raining"
---
Cheers,
Speranza
From an online source:
"So far as" is now a little old fashioned in most contexts; "as far as" is
regular. – Cerberus Mar 28 '11 at
Both are equally valid because as far as and so far as have exactly the
same meaning in this context. However, so far as may be considered slightly
less formal, as it short for in so far as.
as far as
to the extent that:
as far as I am concerned, it is no big deal
(in) so far as
to the extent that:
it was a windless storm so far as blizzards go
NOAD
You will likely often hear so far as I know in casual conversation.
However, you will probably only see as far as I know in written/formal
contexts.
For the extremely formal, in so far as I/we know would not be out of place.
"As far as I know" is the idiomatic expression I'm familiar with.
as far as conj. To the degree or extent that:
They returned at nine, as far as we know. Usage Note: As far as the Usage
Panel is concerned, as far as had better be followed by both a subject and a
form of go or be concerned. As far as is sometimes used as a preposition
meaning "as for" or "regarding," especially in speech, but a large majority
of the Panel frowns upon this usage.
Eighty percent find the as far as construction in this sentence
unacceptable:
As far as something to do on the weekend, we didn't even have miniature
golf. Eighty-four percent reject the sentence The Yankees are still very much
alive, as far as the divisional race. Further, 89 percent object to as far
as when followed by a noun clause, as in As far as how Koresh got shot, we
don't know yet.
[The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009]
According to the same source "so far as" is a variation of "insofar as" :
so far as conj. Insofar as: So far as I am concerned, the project is over.
The rule I learned many years ago is that "so" follows a negative. For
example, you would say, "She is as tall as her sister, but not so tall as her
brother." I suspect this is one of those rules that few are taught these
days and because it is rarely used correctly, the incorrect has become
acceptable.
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