[lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no longer have a Hitler problem?
- From: "Stan Spiegel" <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:55:48 -0400
LH: "The association of the American Left with Radical Islam has been
demonstrated by a number of writers. They have speculated about why this is the
case. Read for example, Unholy Alliance, Radical Islam and the American Left
by David Horowitz."
Lawrence, your idea of the American Left comes from ideologically right-wing
extremists. They write from an ideological point of view. What David Horowitz
thinks is what David Horowitz thinks. You're confusing what he thinks the
American Left is with what the American Left is. Calling Lieberman the "loyal
opposition" suggests that people who don't support Bush aren't loyal. And
identifying Bush with "America" distorts everything.
Bush isn't America. Bush heads the government as the result of an election
that barely half of the people elected. The other half of us don't feel
represented by him, his decisions, his lies, his misrepresentations. You're
calling nearly half of America, people who didn't want this man to be
re-elected, disloyal. There's probably much more now than half -- given his
approval ratings.
Your voracious reading has made you into a Frankenstein.
How about reading what liberal Democrats think by reading what they write
instead of reading what the David Horowitzes think the Democrats think. Go to
the source. Read The Nation as well as National Review. Read The New Republic
as well as the Weekly Spectator. Read Molly Ivins as well as Bill Kristol. You
might be surprised.
You're looking at only one side of the equation.
Stan Spiegel
Portland, ME
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 1:16 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no longer have a Hitler problem?
The association of the American Left with Radical Islam has been demonstrated
by a number of writers. They have speculated about why this is the case. Read
for example, Unholy Alliance, Radical Islam and the American Left by David
Horowitz.
This Anti-Americanism is consistent with its European cousin. Read
Jean-Francois Revel's Anti-Americanism, Bruce Bawer's While Europe Slept, How
Radical Islam is destroying the west from within, Claire Berlinski's Menace in
Europe, why the continent's Crisis is America's too, Jonathan Fenby's France on
the Brink, a Great Civilization Faces the New Century.
There has been so much written on this, I must believe it is common
knowledge. Leftist writers and Islamists use the same anti-American arguments.
They borrow from each other. They support each other's causes.
Way back after 9/11, before Bush did anything, I hoped he was going to have
the guts to oppose the Islamists, but I had my doubts. I voiced them on
whatever discussion group I was in at the time - Bush had no experience. His
platform didn't include anything that was remotely warlike. Since then he has
conducted the war against the Islamists in a creditable fashion. Critics are
entitled to argue that Bush used too few troops and didn't do this or that
right in regard to managing the war, but Leftists and Islamists argue that the
Islamists are right and America is wrong. Whatever America does is for some
underhanded reason. We want to get Iraqi oil. We want to prop up thugs here
and there. We want to advance our empire. The list goes on and on. Read
speeches by Ward Churchill and Osama bin Laden to enlarge the list.
You haven't written enough for me to know which category you are in. Are you
in the loyal opposition like Joe Lieberman? Do you think someone like Kerry
could have done a better job of conducting the war? Fine. But the Leftists
I'm describing believe America should be defeated by the Islamists. It
believes that it deserved to have its world trade center destroyed on 9/11.
Such Leftists have declared common cause with the Radical Islamists.
Lawrence
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Stan Spiegel
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:52 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no longer have a Hitler problem?
L.H. "Leftists seek out new opportunities to attack the U.S. while the
Islamic Fascists remain unopposed by them. "
Where and how do you come up with such garbage, Lawrence? Leftists are
anti-American? What makes you think that?
If I'm what you call a "leftist," it's not America I attack when I criticize
the White House and this administration, it's Bush, his unrelenting
incompetence, his lack of concern for the public interest, his focus on
comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted, his willingness to lie
to us at every turn, etc.
Are you so unaware of our history that you consider criticizing Bush as
anti-American rather than patriotic? Dissent, from what you seem to be saying,
is unacceptable. Is that what you're saying?
And Leftists are unopposed to the Islamic crazies out there?
For such a bright guy, you leave me bewildered.
Stan Spiegel
Portland, ME
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no longer have a Hitler
problem?
Perhaps I was hasty in assuming the worst. I have history books as well as
Charles Taylor on my desk in front of me and have noticed how difficult it is
to break loose from the Climate of Opinion that is prevalent in one's country
at the time one lives. The current Leftist climate of opinion comprises, in
effect, a pro-Islamist or pro-Islamic-Fascist stance. Instead of opposing the
Islamic-Fascists, they oppose the U.S. Notice all the responses I've received
since broaching these subjects. Leftists seek out new opportunities to attack
the U.S. while the Islamic Fascists remain unopposed by them. And they see
nothing strange in that. I find that remarkable.
I thought it interesting to hypothesize the taking of Leftist Americans,
functioning under their current pro-Fascist anti-American climate of opinion
and transporting them back to America of the 1930s. With such a climate of
opinion, could they do anything but oppose our going to war against Hitler?
The prevalent climate of opinion of the 30s wasn't quite theirs. It was one of
leaving the Europeans to stew in their own juice. While the majority was
opposed to going to war, it wasn't anti-American.
Lawrence
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