That was one of the many dumb things that happened. Alcibiades led the expedition but allowed his troops to do some irreligious things to some of the statures on Sicily; so the Athenians ordered Alcibiades to come home to Athens in order to be executed. Not being stupid or suicidal, Alcibiades sold his services to the Spartans. He told them how to defeat the Athenians. One of the things he told them was to rush off to help Syracuse. Syracuse was just about to fall when the Spartan aid arrived -- arrived in the nick of time. Lawrence Helm San Jacinto -----Original Message----- From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Yost Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:15 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Anzio and the meaning of war LH: Wars often, perhaps usually, decide things. If they are decisive defeats they provide provisional decisions, which is the only type of decision humanity has really known ... unless freedom, democracy, and the value of the individual really have staying power. I think you should consider my semi-serious "20 percent hold back the other 80 percent" thesis. LH: Why would the Athenians want to attack the democratic Syracuse it in the middle of the Peloponnesian War? That was Alcibiades, wasn't it? Clearly one of those 20 percent. A narcissistic goofball who forgot everything Socrates tried to teach him, Aspiring to rise above the 20 percent, Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html