[lit-ideas] Re: Anonymity and revelation...

  • From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:11:54 -0500

> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Paul <robert.paul@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 1/30/2006 3:38:28 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Anonymity and revelation...
> Irene wrote:
> > I'm not clear what you haven't heard.  Between he and I is ubiquitous
> > wrong.  It's down there with universally using lay instead of lie.  As
> > language changes it will inevitably absorb the discrepancies and
> > they'll be standard.  Lie might even just disappear all together.  I'll
> > probably be the only person to miss it.  Maybe even be the only person
> > notice it's gone.  Regarding if Me attacked I, then Myself would simply
> > in there and stop the brawling.  Piece of cake.
> Why you're not clear is not clear. Earlier, you wrote:
>  > Most people hyper correct in the opposite direction, as in "Give it 
> to > he" when clearly it should be give it to him.  I think the 
> reasoning    > is that because it sounds wrong, it's right.
> To which, as you've noted, I replied that I'd never heard that in my 
> life, that is, I've never heard anyone say 'Give it to he.' '

That's what was unclear.  You really have to get out more.  That's all but
standard usage in business.  That's part of my earlier lament that so
called professionals are glorified plumbers or electricians. All they know
is their craft.  Maybe in the ol Ivory Tower they don't talk that way, but
in real life that's how it's done.  

Give it to 
> him (her, them, us) is so natural and correct that I wonder where you've 
> heard '----- he.' The 'sounds wrong, so it must be right,' theory is 
> interesting. Is there a corresponding theory that if it sounds right it 
> must be wrong?

Dunno, but it does seem like the one implies the other.

> I wrote, too that'between he and I' is ubiquitous and uncorrected, as is 
> 'Whom shall I say is calling?' When I said that 'between he and I' was 
> ubiquitous and uncorrected, I meant that it went uncorrected, i.e., 
> wasn't heard (seen) as wrong, etc. Of course it IS wrong.
> When you say that you're probably the only person left who knows (or 
> cares about) the difference between lie and lay, I wonder who you think 
> your audience on this list is.

I guess I should have qualified it that in my life I'll be the only one to
notice it.  On this list certainly others will, although it's been misused
even here.  

> We're all just a bunch of pronouns anyway.

Well, yeah, we are.  Unless you want to talk like Bob Dole, who always used
"Bob Dole" instead of I.  He'd say things like "Bob Dole thinks this is a
good idea."  Kind of strange, no?

> Robert Paul
> Reed College
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