I haven't read the blog posts, you're right about that. I find email posts easier to cope with, also, for reasons I don't understand, I am usually unable to click on your links to your blog posts! And I'm using Firefox 3,6, which pouts when asked to go to a web page, hares off in pursuit of google-analytics instead, crashes... web use has been miserable for some while now I'll try to look albeit I am sure you haven't actually proved the point Judy Evans, Cardiff --- On Sat, 3/7/10, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: All praise to JC To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Saturday, 3 July, 2010, 0:34 Judy, It might seem like slander if I didn't develop arguments to prove my point; which I did in other notes not so long ago. You obviously missed those notes. I don't know what to do about that. Lawrence From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judith Evans Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 3:05 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: All praise to JC I retract my reply, it is inadequate, you slander Mike, >supports the Islamists in their desire to engage in genocide against the >Jews. is just too much, is just bad --- On Fri, 2/7/10, Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: All praise to JC To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Friday, 2 July, 2010, 22:57 but I should reply to Lawrence too, if both briefly and partly, now >Another way to look at the objects of Blogblather's condemnation would be to >see them >.as European ways that had not yet been sloughed off by Americans >dedicated to free >.enterprise and human rights. a way that falls foul of the difference between indentured labour and chattel slavery, of Somersett's case, which effectively abolished slavery (mainly=domestic service, some 14.000 slaves) in the uk -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somersett's_Case -- of the 1807 Slave Trade Act and the 1833 Abolition of Slavery Act (seen as the only way to eliminate the slave trade). but anyway as Mike says, the US is a hotchpotch --- On Fri, 2/7/10, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: All praise to JC To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Friday, 2 July, 2010, 20:30 I posted a response to Mike's (aka Billy Blogblather's) note at http://www.lawrencehelm.com/2010/07/shame-germany-america-and-genocide.html Lawrence From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Geary Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:09 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: All praise to JC Hi, Chris, To begin: "Civilization" is a meaningless word . Let's use the word 'culture' instead -- significantly less meaningless. In the U. S. there are innumerable cultures -- my guess is, more so than in any of the European countries, but I don't know that. European countries strike me as being much more homogeneous than the US. And, as I write this, America is becoming more and more Hispanicized day by day. I celebrate that. Hispanics seem to have a hell of lot better grip on reality than the Northern European stock here who've grown fat, proud and complacent, and supremely confident of their superiority. I can't speak to Cheever's disillusionment with America. I grew up in Memphis, raised by very liberal parents, I've been aware almost from the very beginning how racist and ultra-right the South is. I learned from my parents and from a few subversive teachers that the Southern culture is not only retrogressive, it is morally deficient -- to put it politely. I don't think of America as an entity, or as a culture. It's too diffuse. And that's a wonderful thing. There are many things about America that I hate, primarily its militarism. But this is all I know. I have a brother who has lived in Denmark for the last 47 years and loves it totally. I myself came within a week of emigrating to Canada rather than going to Vietnam, a war I believed was indefensible on moral grounds. A teaching job came through at the very end -- sweet deferment. I've lived one year in San Francisco -- god what a paradise -- and six years in Seattle -- a place better called "Heaven". Everything about both those cities were right down my perspective alley, but weirdly I never really connected with anyone in either city -- maybe it was my Southern accent : ) When my kids started having kids I came back to Memphis. I was struck at how quickly all the old relationships fell back into place. I was home again, and loving it. And hating it. I've not sure what Cheever expected. What was he needing America to be? It's just another country, but one that's a hodgepodge of cultures, a country founded in genocide, supported through slavery and slave wages for three hundred years. A country that presents itself as the noblest of the noble. But America is not the shining light on the hill, that I was taught it to be by my educators -- men (almost exclusively -- most of whom I now know knew less about life and human nature than I did at ten years old all praise and thanks to my wondrously anomalous parents.) America is just another grouping of people trying to bring things together without too much pain to themselves. What people aren't? Mike Geary Memphis. PS anyone interested in contemporary "Southern Culture" should tune into the Memphis Commercial Appeal's website: http://www.commercialappeal.com/ ; and read the comments on the various articles.. If you see one by Kinch, that's me.