J. Evans: "My point precisely -- that is, you illustrate precisely the attitude I had in mind. The surveys I mentioned come, I should have explained, from organizations allegedly working for older people's welfare. Yet they seek to ask what (more) older people can do for 'the environment' while also being concerned, allegedly anyway, with the effects on older people of the environment in which they live. (But they do not use the term in that context, presumably being of the 'environment'=little furry animals tendency.) Incidentally, you mean the late Ned Sherrin, who may or may not have indexed unindexed books to keep himself useful (just as Mary Warnock may not follow her own precept and off herself before she becomes a burden on society.... )" ----- I should say that the quote was actually in Sherrin's (edited) Oxford Dict. of Humorous Quotations, which I don't have to hand. The quote may not have been his. I remember this other one, pro-smoking, and just as offensive, "They say smoking gets you a few years of your life, but I rather enjoy the ones I live that spend the last 5 in Weston-Super-Mare" Not having been there, but knowing it must be _very_ nice, I was reminded of one philosopher who I know was _born_ in Weston, not died there (Michael Clarke, Emeritus from Nottingham, I would think). A Roman senator was a 'gerontes', i.e. an old person, hence the subject line. The Wise and the Old. Isherwood used to joke on the idea of 'wiser and older' (in "Down the River", I think). On the other hand, I recall a bio of George Michael offensively entitled, "Older" (with the implicature, "but hardly wiser"). Cheers, JL ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com