Steve Cameron claims that we disagree because he suggests that instances where Christians have used the sword "with somewhat significant consequences to those who weren't Christians" count in considering whether the Church's change of position on the sword was a good or bad thing. The matter is not one of disagreement or agreement but one of relevance. To argue as Steve does is not unlike arguing that the 'somewhat significant consequences' to those who lived in Dresden has some bearing on the question of the State and the legitimacy of its waging war. Steve is not disagreeing with me but engaging in a non-sequitor. There is the issue of whether the use of the sword has a place in the life of the Church and then there is the issue of how Christians have used the sword in particular cases. Sincerely, Phil Enns Toronto, ON ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html