http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=%22Palaces+For+The+People%22 Searched the web for "Palaces For The People". Results 1 - 100 of about 387. Search took 0.45 seconds Listing #18 of 387 = Yahoo! Groups : SustainableCommunity Welcome, Guest, ... groups.yahoo.com/group/SustainableCommunity/ - 23k http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SustainableCommunity/message/1904 Message 1904 of 1913 From: "William and Margaret Burroughs" <w.burroughs@xxxx> Date: Mon Sep 8, 2003 2:30 pm Subject: Questioning the Palaces For The People -- in Mendocino County? ============================================ I had to take a break from several discussion groups, because the perceived friction level was too high: I'd get bugged on one group, and carry that feeling over to messaging another group. I was looking at google and saw that additional discussion occurred while I was absent. I would like to discuss those issues raised, but if it is off-topic in this group, then I ought to do it in the group created for that discussion: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/ For more information: http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Proposal/proposal1.html Post message: Palaces4People@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subscribe: Palaces4People-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unsubscribe: Palaces4People-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx --- In SustainableCommunity@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "William and Margaret Burroughs" <w.burroughs@xxxx> wrote: > Thanks to forest and T for the comments on questioning. While at La'akea, > we were working on the consensus method of decision making. Unfortunately > most of the members moved on (mainly for economic reasons) before we > developed much skill. > > I would like to develop better questioning techniques so would appreciate > help from T if this is not asking too much on an email list because there > are thing I would like to know about the Palaces for the people. In my mind > that would involve asking questions. > > I think Lion has a very admirable goal in housing 10 billion people. This > certainly rates him as kind and innocent. Several of the lists I am on > would consider it impossible once the fossil fuels are gone. Therefore, > time is of the essence to get building such projects. > > In the USA I think that older retired people might be a target market for > such a project as it would be an improvement on the "average" senior citizen > care home and the combining of generations would also help younger families > at the same time. A Palace certainly sounds better for the environment and > maybe the economy then more "Sun Cities" in our sunbelt with their vast > water gobbling golf courses and multi hundred thousand dollar homes. > > So my problem is how to find out about the "miracle" building beams with out > asking about their material. Earthships have a similar pyramid city design > but they are not hollow. Arcosanti is a good example of concrete > construction but is not even close to a sustainable construction method. > Also it takes a crane to put things in place. > > Without fossil fuels, my research would indicate that wood or better yet > bamboo are the most sustainable materials for building structures. Once > these fuels are gone, maybe solar thermal will have a chance but the high > tech solar thermal plants also depend on materials that may be hard to come > by in the future. > > I hope Lion will shed a little more light on these ideas. > > Hank now in Kentucky where the humidity is NOT like the left coast. Alexander Graham Bell invented the Octet Truss five decades before Bucky patented it in 1962. The concept of three-dimentional triangulation was not new going back to greek geometers of a couple hundred B.C. Bucky gave it a name: OC from octahedron, and TET from tetrahedron, both platonic regular geometric solids known and studied by the ancient greeks. Modern carbon fibers in a resin matrix have strengths it's hard to believe. Tap Plastics sell retail by the yard, at $3 per square foot costs, 12x12 carbon weave which has a tensile strength of 560,000 psi. One foot of this stuff, rolled into a tight coil rope could suspend a sack of elephants (with 840 elephants in the sack). Yet, the stuff can be cut with a pair of sissors. A frenchman invented geopolymer, a reinvention basically of roman pozzolan cement, which has upheld the coliseum, the parthenon, and hundreds of miles of remnant aquaducts for 2,000 years. Putting carbon-fibers inside geopolymer insures buildings of one-hundred-plus years of structural soundness. While octet trusses could be made with bamboo or wood, since both cellulose and lignins arre made of sugar, bamboo and wood is made of sugar. There are four kingdoms of life with numerous species in each kingdom, which have learned how to increase their prosperity by consuming cellulose and lignins. Practically the only way to keep all these sugar predators at bay is to saturate the material with chemistry toxic to flesh, which is to say constantly leaking into the built area being protected by the toxins -- "sick building syndrome". Octet Trusses are extremely light weight: they are 99% air space. The close tight bonds of carbon, way down on the periodic table of the elements where molecule to molecule bonds can be their tightest, means that a light material is exceptionally strong. Carbon is also heat resistant to the point that pure carbon in the form of graphite is used as the cruciables for meltimg most other substances, although silicon (with the same valance structure as carbon) in the form of quartz is also popular for cruciables and viewing windows into hyper-temperature furnaces. It does not take cranes to move octet trusses up the floors of Palaces For The People construction. Teenage girls can do it, using octet trusses for temporary scaffolding and ladders, passing sections of trusses hand by hand up the levels, installing octet girders that can uphold a sack of elephants using no heavy machinery. The octet trusses can be built in temporary workshops by relatively untrained unskilled laborers, easily transported to the site on lightweight trailers (made of octet trusses, what else?), and joined together using "pre-preg" technology using (gloved) fingers as the primary tools. No power tools of any kind are required to build a Palace For The People on the jobsite. Every part can be made in climate-controlled dust-free workshops, or factories, and practically leggo-style, snapped together for the strongest framework the world have ever seen. Some weblog citation links are found on the bottom of my previously published page on concrete posts specs -- you have to scroll down below the data table: http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Palaces/Concrete/Cement_Posts_Specs.html There you will find details on army tests retrofitting buildings for carbomb resistance using carbon fibers retrofitting; plastic highway bridges you may have already driven over; geoploymer testing done for the FAA for lightweight fireproof airplane cabin fixtures... The whole project continues to develop. I do get bugged that people criticise that its not done yet, when I put thousands of hours into it already, and all they are is consumers, not helpers. Anybody want to put together an index, be my guest, or else wait until I get around to it. I gave links off pages going to further info to follow, and I gave a visual selector page as a "table of contents". http://www.ecosyn.us/Interesting/ I'll give people TWICE their money back to NOT visit my pages and whine about what's not there. Hell, I'll give you 100 times every cent you ever paid me, just stop making more demands on me than you make on yourself. If it ain't worth an hour of your life creating webpages, text and illustrations, that answers YOUR questions, how come I'm supposed to spend hours of my life? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sincerely, Lion Kuntz Santa Rosa, California, USA - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4Japan/ http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Proposal/Palaces_For_The_People.html http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Challenges/Asia_Floods/Wet/All_Wet.html http://www.ecosyn.us/Interesting/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com