[lifesaviors] Re: [Palaces4People] Re: Hydrogen and solar energy storage
- From: <lionkuntz@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: Palaces4People@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Palaces4Japan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
Welcome Back.
Hydrogen is a linchpin of Palaces For The People.
The water works uses solar PV, in solid state systems
without moving parts, to electrolyze water. As the
hydrogen gas accumulates under wayer it displaces the,
forcing it up a pipe to overflow into a holding tank.
The rooftop holding tank then gravity feeds the
building potable water plumbing system. There is a
similar system (with crucial differences) which
purifies the blackwater and has its own plumbing
system feeding and rooftop tank. Both rooftop storage
tanks double as fire-fighting reserves. Although the
buildings themselves are made of entirely fireproof
materials, furnishing and merchandise may be made of
flamable materials, and firefighting on occasion has
been anticipated.
A third plumbing system for building cooling and
heating carries water through the walls and floors at
an appropriate temperature and rate of flow to insure
comfort levels.
None of these plumbing systems have moving parts, so
there is nothing to breakdown.
Storing water by pumping it is not more efficient than
converting to hydrogen through electrolysis. I hope
some careless science writer, or pumped-H2O for
storage enthusiast, has not misled you on that fact.
The available numbers in public just do not support
that proposition.
While pumping water is similar in return to burning H2
to power turbines, only one of the two has a heating
benefit (laundry, bakery, building hot water supply)
from capturing "waste" heat from H2 burning, and only
one of the two provides a high-quality pure H20
byproduct.
The hydrogen serves multiple purposes:
(1) kitchen cooking gas,
(2) pressure lifting water,
(3) heating the phase-change storage material,
(4) purifying the sewage, and baking it to
dehydration,
(5) as a working gas in heat exchanging,
and possibly,
(6) as a reactant in the PV Breeder feedstock
purification.
Hydrogen stored in tanks under water cannot flashback
a fire into the tank if it leaks. LH2, stored
underwater self-applies an ice-tourniquet to seal any
leak.
An 8 million liter water cistern is a basic standard
feature of every Palace. This sounds like a lot, and
it is a lot, but it is not anywhere near a year's
supply at US rates of use-and-dispose. This represents
about 50 days supply at US average suburban metered
usages.
The world's most pure water can be obtained using a
new method which I designed for the purpose of
throwing in a detour to conceal my real plan. I had an
idea I didn't want to share openly, so I dropped in a
substitute to keep from having a hole in the
presentation.
I soon noticed I had been too hasty in dropping in a
substitute, and math errors needed to be adjusted for.
I fixed them, but it bugged me that a jury-rigged
solution like that was out there with my name on it,
even if it was a solution I never intended to use. In
looking for yet a better substitute, I found a
solution which was better than my original plan.
The new idea also has practically no moving parts, but
it uses incredibly small quantities of energy to
accomplish it's mission. It also uses substantial
amounts of the oxygen byproduct of obtaining the
electrolyzed hydrogen.
The Palace systems do not need large quantities of
environmental water, neither well waters, or city
piped waters, nor river or stream waters. In the
majority of locations annual rainfall can be captured
and retained into the cistern.
Palaces For The People are intended to "shrink the
human footprint" down to a minimum size. The systems,
if not the buildings themselves, are what you would
want and would need if you were an early colonist to
the moon or Mars. Nothing is wasted. As little as
possible is requested from the outside environment.
Pollution is eliminated from consideration as an
option.
You might want to try the discipline of designing from
environmental constraints sometimes. Not only does it
help to focus one's attention on just the benign
solutions, but, as in my case described above, it can
produce an immensely beneficial technology completely
overlooked by engineering perspectives from the
viewpoint of "Masters of the Universe". Because the
masters give themselves permission to dispossess any
species in their way, they do not look for minimal
footprint solutions and consequently never find them.
Until people think of the "New Contract with Nature"
as a mandatory design constraint, they are unlikely to
pursue the pathways of maximal synergy. Not only does
synergy do more with less, it does it better than
using the most. Bill Gates can't buy a better water
purification system than I can deliver to the poor of
Assam, India (people who think Calcutta looks like up
to them). Water that has been broken down to H2 and O2
has no contaminants of any kind. I have to pass the
water through a mineral filter to infuse it with
dissolved minerals because pure water is considered
"tasteless" by most.
Palaces have these design constraints:
(1) must be still usable for its purpose after 100
years,
(2) must be autonomous in everything which can be
secured within the building footprint: vehicle fleet
fuel, water services, cooking gas, electric power,
heating and cooling, sewer services, income production
space,
(3) must not release any toxic emissions of any kind,
(4) must be fireproof, must be floodproof up to 5
meters height, must be earthquake safe to 8.0, must be
storm resistant to once-in-500 year events.
Care to apply your thinking with these design rules?
I would enjoy the help. Still so much to do.
--- David Neeley <dbneeley@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> First, I think the "breeder solar cell" idea is one
> of the
> best of the entire project.
>
> Second, I agree with your logic regarding
> electrolysis-produced hydrogen, but *not*
> necessarily as a
> mass energy storage medium in the early days.
> Instead, I
> would reserve such hydrogen mostly for vehicular use
> *IF*
> there is also at the site a suitable source of water
> in
> quantity. In that case, I would consider the
> possibility of
> using the excess power to pump the water into
> elevated
> storage, releasing it later to power electric
> generators.
>
> Mind--I have not studied the figures required for
> this to
> be a specific recommendation! However, for those P4P
> communities built near hills or mountains, it might
> become
> a useful method of proceeding at fairly low cost.
>
> Since the finished designs for the Palaces will be
> very
> energy-efficient, this may be the most effective
> method of
> energy storage that will yield sufficient power for
> times
> when solar production is insufficient during the
> earliest
> periods of the project.
>
> Obviously, with a "breeder" program producing new
> solar
> conversion techniques, the quantity of power
> produced will
> constantly increase as the collectors come on line.
> As this
> power increase leads to increased ability to produce
> additional hydrogen, then the relative efficiencies
> will be
> less of a concern--and it could be that the hydrogen
> will
> become viable as an increasing part of the energy
> production plan as the capacity for hydro becomes
> inadequate to support population increases.
>
> Equally obviously, since water will have to be
> secured for
> the populace anyway, would this kind of storage not
> serve
> several purposes at once?
>
> Food for thought, I hope, at any rate!
>
> David
=====
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Sincerely, Lion Kuntz
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4Japan/
http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Proposal/Palaces_For_The_People.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Challenges/Asia_Floods/Wet/All_Wet.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/Interesting/
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