[liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [liblouisutdml] push by bertfrees - Add test for John Brugge's issue... on 2014-02-25 22:35 GMT
- From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:00:59 -0600
Only text nodes with nothing but whitespace are ignored. For one thing, this
avoids a lot of meaningless <brl> tags in UTDML.
John B
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 07:49:22AM -0800, John Gardner wrote:
> I am no XML expert, but I had thought that XML formatters ignored leading
> and trailing white space and that there is an algorithm for inserting spaces
> between sections of text separated by span, emphasis, etc tags. If so, then
> braille should do the same thing imho.
>
> John G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
> Boyer
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 7:34 AM
> To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [liblouisutdml] push by bertfrees - Add
> test for John Brugge's issue... on 2014-02-25 22:35 GMT
>
> Text nodes with only whitespace are ignored. This was a decision made to
> avvoid having to dddeal with whitespace introduced by prettyp-rinting
> which indents different levels in a document by
> different amounts. It is the usual way of handling xml.
>
> Please stop aarguing and come up with an algorithm that will handle these
> examples and not produce sside effectws.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Bert Frees wrote:
> > Come on John, let's be serious. There is absolutely nothing wrong with
> > these examples if you ask me.
> >
> > The space between the closing span tag and the opening em tag is
> > significant, so liblouisutdml should clearly not drop it. The space
> between
> > "fox" and "jumped" isn't dropped, so it can't be impossible to handle the
> > situation correctly between "jumped" and "over", right?
> >
> > Also, it's a formatting thing IMO, not a translation thing, so one
> > shouldn't rely on liblouis tables to trim whitespace.
> >
> > If this would concern me at all I would have a look at it, but as I said
> in
> > the Pipeline I use liblouisutdml for formatting flattened blocks only.
> >
> >
> > Bert
> >
> >
> >
> > 2014-02-28 9:47 GMT+01:00 John J. Boyer <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >
> > > In the second example there should be a space before over. The example
> is
> > > syntactically correct, but that does not guarantee that it is
> semantically
> > > correct. The situation is similar to a program which
> > > compiles without errors but does not produce the right results.
> > >
> > > liblouisutdml is not an editor. It has limited facilities for
> compensating
> > > for improper text in documents. We have been discussing similar
> situations
> > > in the work on BrailleBlaster. It does have editing
> > > facilities for print and will have them for braille also.
> > >
> > > The way to deal with situations like this in Bookshare is to warn the
> > > proofreadwrs about them. If you can come up with a way in which
> > > liblouisutdml could handle these two examples I will be glad to hear
> > > it.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 08:47:06PM +0000, John Brugge wrote:
> > > > I guess my point is not about the source documents; the problem I see
> is
> > > > in cases where the source is perfectly legal and appropriate. Let me
> see
> > > > if I can clarify what the situation seems like.
> > > >
> > > > I'll use again two simple fragments that I had before. The first is a
> > > > paragraph with emphasized text in it, and a span that has a period
> > > > immediately following it:
> > > >
> > > > <p>
> > > > <em>The quick brown fox</em> <span>jumped</span>. <em>What a
> > > surprise.</em>
> > > > </p>
> > > >
> > > > The second is a paragraph with a span that has a space after it, since
> it
> > > > is in the middle of a sentence.
> > > >
> > > > <p>
> > > > <em>The quick brown fox</em> <span>jumped</span> <em>over the lazy
> > > > dog.</em>
> > > > </p>
> > > >
> > > > Here are the options that I have tried for converting this:
> > > > 1. Have a simple "no span" in a semantic action file. The result for
> the
> > > > first example is correct output, with no space between "jumped" and
> the
> > > > period. The result for the second example is incorrect output, where
> > > > "jumped" and "over" are run together. (This is the situation that
> appears
> > > > to me to be the bug).
> > > >
> > > > 2. Have a "no span" with a third column of "\*\s". The result for the
> > > > first example is incorrect this time, as there is now a space between
> > > > "jumped" and the period. The result for the second example is correct
> > > this
> > > > time, with a space between "jumped" and "over".
> > > >
> > > > 3. Same as above and add "compress.cti" to my list of liblouis tables.
> > > > There is no difference in the results.
> > > >
> > > > Does that make any more sense, or am I still missing what the workable
> > > > solution is, so that both examples will convert appropriately and I
> don't
> > > > have to choose between the lesser of bad translations? Perhaps we have
> > > > some other odd interaction with semantic action rules in our config
> that
> > > > I'm not aware of, but I don't think that we're doing anything funky,
> at
> > > > least not on purpose. I know we haven't touched any of the liblouis
> table
> > > > definitions.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
>
> --
> John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> Madison, Wisconsin USA
> Developing software for people with disabilities
>
> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
>
> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
--
John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
Abilitiessoft, Inc.
http://www.abilitiessoft.com
Madison, Wisconsin USA
Developing software for people with disabilities
For a description of the software, to download it and links to
project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
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