[liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: Generating xml for Universal Tactile Document Files
- From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:28:44 -0600
I agree that tactile bit maps are too device-dependent to be part of
SVG. We will have to work out a way of encoding them in the UTD file. I
have given some thought to this.
John
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 12:03:31PM -0800, John Gardner wrote:
> Chris, you are quite correct about SVG, and in fact, the philosophy of
> the ViewPlus IVEO technology is that tactile images can be derived
> directly from the SVG file. Some images such as photographs don't
> provide intuitive tactile representations if derived directly from the
> visual image, so that's why one would want to include a tactile layer.
> However transcribers are perfectionists who often insist on tweaking the
> embosser bit map before it is embossed. More than tweaking is needed
> for lower resolution embossers that don't have variable dot heights. So
> that's why embosser-specific tactile bit maps are needed in UTD. They
> are too nitty-gritty dependent on today's technoloogy to be part of SVG
> (my opinion).
>
> On 12/23/2009 11:42 AM, Chris von See wrote:
> >John, I may not have correctly understood your original description of
> >UTD. Since SVG is a W3C standard method of representing graphics and it
> >is allowed as a DAISY image format, it seemed reasonable that tactile
> >graphics could be represented in SVG and that SVG could be readily
> >understood by devices needing to render those graphics, regardless of
> >whether that rendering is in ink or dots. It may be that I don't
> >completely understand the problem that's being solved by UTD or why it
> >would need to be embosser specific...
> >
> >Cheers
> >Chris
> >
> >On Dec 23, 2009, at 10:58 AM, John Gardner wrote:
> >
> >>I'm not sure I understand the question Chris. Is your question about
> >>the proposal by the DAISY SVG Working Group to include invisible
> >>tactile layers in addition to visible SVG layers? If so, then yes, UTD
> >>is different. Braille is, crudely speaking, a tactile bit map
> >>representation of the words in the DAISY XML file, and the UTD tactile
> >>graphics portion would be a tactile bit map representation of the SVG
> >>tactile layer. The SVG images are not specific to any particular
> >>technology, but the UTD image would need to be embosser-specific. UTD
> >>is presently more of an idea than a specification, and it might be a
> >>good idea for UTD to include several copies of graphics formatted for
> >>a variety of embossers.
> >>
> >>On 12/23/2009 9:46 AM, Chris von See wrote:
> >>>Aside from the braille labels, etc. how does UTD compare to SVG, which
> >>>is already supported by DAISY?
> >>>
> >>>Chris von See
> >>>Senior Geek
> >>>TechAdapt, Inc.
> >>>http://www.techadapt.com
> >>>chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>>Save trees. Print only when necessary.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:39 AM, John Gardner wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hello all, I apologize - I should have introduced the concept of UTD
> >>>>Universal Tactile Document before to the list. As John Boyer points
> >>>>out, it is indeed something that ViewPlus has put forward, but we hope
> >>>>it is far more useful than just for ViewPlus. It is useful today for
> >>>>any embosser that can also emboss graphics and/or that can print ink
> >>>>words.
> >>>>
> >>>>UTD is being proposed as a superset of DAISY3 XML with extensions as
> >>>>necessary to include a formatted tactile document. It will contain
> >>>>braille of course with indicators connecting the braille with the
> >>>>normal text. UTD is intended to serve as both a format used by
> >>>>braille/tactile graphics/ink-print embossers and as a format that is
> >>>>convenient for braille/tactile graphics translator software of the
> >>>>future. By retaining the original DAISY document, it retains a great
> >>>>deal of flexibility. So it's not really a superset of PEF.
> >>>>
> >>>>John Gardner
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On 12/23/2009 6:40 AM, Christian Egli wrote:
> >>>>>Hi John
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"John J. Boyer"<john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >>>>>>The main thing now is to work out the specifications for the
> >>>>>>Universal
> >>>>>>Tactile Documnt Language. These may be preliminary. They will draw on
> >>>>>>ideas from the Portable Embosser File (PEF) language and from the
> >>>>>>rest
> >>>>>>of Daisy xml.
> >>>>>I'm not sure you've introduced the idea of the Universal Tactile
> >>>>>Document Language before. Is it some kind of superset of PEF[1],
> >>>>>i.e. a
> >>>>>page oriented xml format that contains Braille?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Footnotes:
> >>>>>[1] http://www.daisy.org/projects/braille/braille_workarea/pef.php
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>John Gardner | President | ViewPlus
> >>>>541.754.4002 x 220 | www.viewplus.com
> >>>>________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted
> >>>>with it may be
> >>>>proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to
> >>>>whom they are
> >>>>addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying,
> >>>>disclosure, dissemination
> >>>>or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and
> >>>>delete the message.
> >>>>ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any
> >>>>kind resulting
> >>>>from this email.
> >>>>For a description of the software and to download it go to
> >>>>http://www.jjb-software.com
> >>>
> >>>For a description of the software and to download it go to
> >>>http://www.jjb-software.com
> >>
> >>--
> >>________________________________
> >>
> >>John Gardner | President | ViewPlus
> >>541.754.4002 x 220 | www.viewplus.com
> >>________________________________
> >>
> >>PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted
> >>with it may be
> >>proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to
> >>whom they are
> >>addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying,
> >>disclosure, dissemination
> >>or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and
> >>delete the message.
> >>ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any
> >>kind resulting
> >>from this email.
> >>For a description of the software and to download it go to
> >>http://www.jjb-software.com
> >
> >For a description of the software and to download it go to
> >http://www.jjb-software.com
>
> --
> ________________________________
>
> John Gardner | President | ViewPlus
> 541.754.4002 x 220 | www.viewplus.com
> ________________________________
>
> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted with
> it may be
> proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to
> whom they are
> addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying,
> disclosure, dissemination
> or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and
> delete the message.
> ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any kind
> resulting
> from this email.
> For a description of the software and to download it go to
> http://www.jjb-software.com
--
John J. boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
Abilitiessoft, Inc.
http://www.abilitiessoft.com
Madison, Wisconsin USA
Developing software for people with disabilities
For a description of the software and to download it go to
http://www.jjb-software.com
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