[liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: BANA to UEB
- From: Mesar Hameed <mesar.hameed@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 04:41:34 +0100
If you have an extensive document, which has been independantly
translated/checked to bana, and to ueb, wdiff might
be useful to quickly
identify the differences.
extensive document, to ensure you will catch as many differences as
possible.
For example I used the following command to see how the two brf file you
sent differed:
wdiff -w '-{' -x '}-' -y '+{' -z '}+' BANA.brf UEB.brf
where -{ }- will show deleted text, +{ }+ will show inserted text.
It might be even easier to read if the brf files were converted into
unicode braille, giving an even clearer overview.
Mesar
On Tue 14/08/12,10:58, Greg Kearney wrote:
> I have a feeling I'm in over my head on this. I can try and find a list of
> the differences for example the at sign @ in BANA is dot 4 in UEB it is dot 4
> and a new cell dot 1 or in the table it would be always @ 4-1
> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100
> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> Email: greg.kearney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Email: gkearney@xxxxxxxxx
>
> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right
> includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive
> and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of
> frontiers.
> Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
>
> On 14/08/2012, at 10:48 AM, "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > I've just begun thinking about this. The best way to start might be to
> > include chardefs.ct. Then write rules to transform BANA to UEB where
> > they differ. I don't think there will be a great many rules. You may
> > have to take into account that in standard brf files the letters and
> > some symbols are in upper case.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 10:40:23AM +0800, Greg Kearney wrote:
> >> While I have done text to Braille tables I have never attempted a Braille
> >> to Braille table. Do you have any sample or suggestions for approaching
> >> this?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> >> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> >> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100
> >> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> >> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> >> Email: greg.kearney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Email: gkearney@xxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right
> >> includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek,
> >> receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless
> >> of frontiers.
> >> Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
> >>
> >> On 14/08/2012, at 10:15 AM, "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The approach I recommend is to make up a new table to go directly from
> >>> BANA Braille to UEB. This should not be difficult.
> >>>
> >>> It would also be a good idea to switch frrom liblouisxml to
> >>> liblouisutdml. It has many new features and bug fixes. liblouisxml is no
> >>> longer under developmennt.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 10:05:22AM +0800, Greg Kearney wrote:
> >>>> True but any time you go through the translator you stand the chance of
> >>>> introduction of errors better to do it once rather than three times.
> >>>>
> >>>> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> >>>> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> >>>> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA
> >>>> 6100
> >>>> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> >>>> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> >>>> Email: greg.kearney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Email: gkearney@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right
> >>>> includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek,
> >>>> receive and impart information and ideas through any media and
> >>>> regardless of frontiers.
> >>>> Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
> >>>>
> >>>> On 14/08/2012, at 9:56 AM, "John J. Boyer"
> >>>> <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Another note. the lbu_translateFile and lbu_backTranslateFile
> >>>>> functionns
> >>>>> in liblouisutdml or their methods in the Java bindings give much better
> >>>>> results than using the liblouis functions directly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 09:13:27AM +0800, Greg Kearney wrote:
> >>>>>> I am including some sample to the group. The issue is that taking a
> >>>>>> braille ready file, translating it to plain text and then back into
> >>>>>> braille is rather like having google translate french to english and
> >>>>>> then back to french again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There are four files in the zip archive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cleartext.txt is the original ascii text file from which BANA.brf was
> >>>>>> made.
> >>>>>> BANA.brf is the resulting BANA encoded Braille file
> >>>>>> Cleartext-translated.txt is the result of reverse translating BANA.brf
> >>>>>> back into ascii text
> >>>>>> UEB.brf is the result of translating the Cleartext-translated.txt into
> >>>>>> UEB coded Braille
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As can be seen the process of back translating braille to text and
> >>>>>> back into braille results in many errors. Also remember that in most
> >>>>>> cases we do not have access to the original clear text versions of
> >>>>>> these file and must work from BANA encoded Braille ready files which
> >>>>>> is why we need a method or reliably converting BANA brf files to UEB
> >>>>>> brf files.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is going to be a much bigger issue than you first might think
> >>>>>> given that both Canada and the U.K. have switch to UEB and there is
> >>>>>> pressure for the U.S. to do so as well. There will be a great deal of
> >>>>>> Braille ready files that will need to be converted.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you for your interest.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> >>>>>> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> >>>>>> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA
> >>>>>> 6100
> >>>>>> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> >>>>>> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> >>>>>> Email: greg.kearney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> Email: gkearney@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this
> >>>>>> right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to
> >>>>>> seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and
> >>>>>> regardless of frontiers.
> >>>>>> Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 14/08/2012, at 3:38 AM, Mesar Hameed <mesar.hameed@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Gregory,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you could share your data/tests
> >>>>>>> maybe one of us can spot the reason(s) for the backtranslation
> >>>>>>> failures.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mesar
> >>>>>>> On Fri 10/08/12,16:11, Greg Kearney wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm thinking about some method of doing a first cut of BANA code
> >>>>>>>> braille into UEB. I tried doing a back translate but the results
> >>>>>>>> were
> >>>>>>>> not very good. Does anyone have any thoughts on this problem?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> >>>>>>>> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> >>>>>>>> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park
> >>>>>>>> WA 6100
> >>>>>>>> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> >>>>>>>> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> >>>>>>>> Email: greg.kearney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> Email: gkearney@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this
> >>>>>>>> right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to
> >>>>>>>> seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and
> >>>>>>>> regardless of frontiers.
> >>>>>>>> Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >>>>>>>> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>>>> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >>>>>>> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> >>>>> Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> >>>>> http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>> Madison, Wisconsin USA
> >>>>> Developing software for people with disabilities
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >>>>> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>
> >>>> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >>>> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> >>> Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> >>> http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>> Madison, Wisconsin USA
> >>> Developing software for people with disabilities
> >>>
> >>> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >>> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>
> >> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >
> > --
> > John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> > Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> > http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > Madison, Wisconsin USA
> > Developing software for people with disabilities
> >
> > For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> > project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
>
> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
For a description of the software, to download it and links to
project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
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