[liblouis-liblouisxml] AW: Re: AW: Re: Python package for easy installation of liblouis - announcing Transcribo, a Braille type-setting system - feedback and help wanted
- From: "Leo" <fhaxbox66@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:14:02 +0200
All that makes a lot of sense. Similar issues could occur with regard to
32/64 bit windows versions. So might we end up with 4 packaged dll's?
Luckily, DLL's are independent of the Python version. In PyHyphen, I have
now included five win32 binaries vor Python 2.4 to 3.1. And admittedly I did
not pay attention to potential USC problems. So far, noone has complained
though which makes me optimistic that most people use the standard Python
distribution on Windows rather than compiling their own one with different
USC. Frankly: why should one do so? - So your point might luckily be not
very significant in practice. Anyway, the setup script should check that
USC's match rather than blindly installing the wrong DLL.
Another issue are the tables. They amount to 3 MByte in liblouis' source
distribution. In PyHyphen I have just included one dictionary plus a module
to download additional dictionaries as needed. An alternative might be to
have PyLouis ship with no tables at all and have the setup script download
some tables, say, from googlecode. This would clearly require pre-packaged
tables to be there.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]Im Auftrag von Michael
Whapples
Gesendet: Sonntag, 19. Juli 2009 13:19
An: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: AW: Re: Python package for easy
installation of liblouis - announcing Transcribo, a Braille type-setting
system - feedback and help wanted
I've just thought and remembered something which could be a big catch,
it is this UCS2 or UCS4 thing. This makes me think then it would be
better to use ./configure and make where possible. I believe ./configure
and make works for mingw but I don't know about it working for MSVC
(although mingw can produce output compatible with MSVC I believe).
However for most users on windows I imagine having a C compiler is not
usual, so may be a binary dll should be provided, although then we get
back to UCS2 and UCS4 again.
May be I should briefly say what the UCS2 and UCS4 problem is. Basically
python can be compiled for 16-bit or 32-bit unicode and so can liblouis
(16-bit unicode is UCS2 and 32-bit unicode is UCS4). Should we have a
16-bit unicode version of python then for the bindings to work we need
an UCS2 build of liblouis and if we have a 32-bit unicode version of
python then we need a version of liblouis compiled for UCS4, we cannot
have a mixture (IE. 16-bit python with ucs4 liblouis will not work and
neither will 32-bit python with UCS2). If we have one of those cases
where python and liblouis use different size unicode then at best output
from liblouis will be nonsense and I think in the worst case can lead to
a crash of python with no way that python apps can recover (I am not
quite sure if it is segmentation fault, but it is something just as
serious).
So my thought is if such a setup.py script is to be generated then we do
the following:
Provide a dll for the binary version of python on windows (IE. which
ever unicode size is used in the official python builds). We would
detect this by checking the platform and checking sys.maxunicode (which
is greater than 65536 if 32-bit unicode). We could provide a second dll
for the other unicode size, but this obviously starts increasing the
package size, or we could just try and compile.
If the platform is not windows, I believe the compile process is the
./configure and make procedure, so we could just do this. We can pass
the configure script the correct option for the unicode size of the
python being used (this again can be got by checking sys.maxunicode).
Also I would say the above should be considered a source package, I
don't think it would be possible to create a binary package (due to the
UCS2 and UCS4 problem).
The only other thing I will say is that certainly on Linux where there
are advanced paqckage management tools (such as apt on debian)
easy_install is a very basic and would not be considered a preferred
choice. Therefore users of linux probably will get liblouis via their
distributions package system and all the UCS2 and UCS4 are dealt with.
Also on debian liblouis and its bindings are packaged separately to give
users choice.
Michael Whapples
On 19/07/09 01:07, Leo wrote:
> I haven't tried, and I hope I won't need to. If you knew how poor my
> knowledge on C compilers is... but I think what you write is a very good
> starting point.
>
> Here are some further thoughts to increase confusion:
>
> The whole thing has to be portable. So if the configure script runs on all
> platforms with all compilers (eg. mingw and MSVC on Windows), there is
> probably nothing to object against your distutils-free approach which is
> easier to maintain as you rightly point out. A no-brainer would probably
> call 'make' on Unix-like OS's and use the ready-made DLL on win32.
> Perfectionists would probably use setuptools as it abstracts from all the
> platform and compiler specificities. If liblouis' configure script does
that
> job, I don't know. I would assume that smooth compiling with mingw and
MSVC
> should be the perfectionist's bottom line. But others on this list are
much
> better placed to judge this.
>
> Leo
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]Im Auftrag von Michael
> Whapples
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 19. Juli 2009 01:28
> An: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Betreff: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: Python package for easy installation
> of liblouis - announcing Transcribo, a Braille type-setting system -
> feedback and help wanted
>
>
> Further to my thoughts yesterday, I have now managed to do what you are
> asking (well not quite yet for liblouis, but for a very, and I do mean
> very, basic example of a shared library). There is another solution I
> could guarantee to work for liblouis but may not sit well for a python
> developer, you could always have the setup script execute the configure
> script and make file.
>
> Anyway back to getting setuptools to actually perform the compile.
>
> So taking the C file mylib.c:
>
> #include<mylib.h>
> int addNums(int val1, int val2) {
> return val1 + val2;
> }
>
> and the header file mylib.h:
>
> int addNums(int val1, int val2);
>
> and then creating the setup.py script:
>
> from setuptools import setup
> from setuptools.extension import Library
> setup(name="mylib",
> version="1.0",
> description="An example of compiling a library",
> ext_modules=[Library("mylib", ["mylib.c"], include_dirs=["."])]
> )
>
> Now run:
>
> python setup.py build
>
> You should find a shared object file in the build directory (look at the
> output from the setup script to get the exact file name). I checked that
> the shared object file worked as a proper shared object file by using
> stypes in python to load it and use the addNums function.
>
> I don't think this makes use of the build_clib step I mentioned
> yesterday, I think setuptools.extension.Library is a replacement for an
> Extension object which deals with stand alone C libraries and so
> compilation happens as part of the build_ext step. Whether this has any
> affect on needing to be careful about order extensions/libraries are
> listed I don't know.
>
> Also I am unsure whether defining all the compilation stuff like this in
> setup.py is a good idea, IE. we would have two versions of the build
> system, one using make the other using setuptools, and so both would
> need maintaining and could get out of sync.
>
> Does the above help at all?
>
> Michael Whapples
> On 17/07/09 22:36, Leo wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am new to this list. So let me briefly explain who I am, why I've
joined
>> and what I want.
>>
>> 1. I am using Braille in different languages and contexts, mainly English
>> and German, simple text and music, both on refreshable displays and
paper.
>> None of the software transforming something into ready-to-emboss plain
>>
> text
>
>> appeals to me as it is either closed-source, costly, inflexible,
>>
> inaccurate,
>
>> complicated or a combination of these. Admittedly I haven't tried out
>> liblouisxml. But here, already the name is complicated and I anticipate
>> difficulties compiling it on Windows.
>>
>> 2. I like Python for its almost ideal combination of clear syntax,
>> conciseness, user-friendliness and speed. My first project has been
>> PyHyphen, a Python wrapper around a C library for multilingual
hyphenation
>> that is used, eg, in OpenOffice.org (see
>> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PyHyphen/).
>>
>> 3. At some point I took a look at reStructuredText (rST), a light-weight,
>> extensible markup language that is predominantly used to write software
>> documentation, eg. for the entire Python distribution (see
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReStructuredText). reStructuredText is very
>> easy to learn, powerful and clear to read. I am convinced it could serve
>>
> as
>
>> an excellent input format for high-end Braille layout. Its features
>>
> include
>
>> sections, bullet and enumerated lists, definition lists, tables,
>>
> references
>
>> such as auto-numbered footnotes, tables of contents, bibliographical
>> information to name but a few. What's more, rST can be extended through
>> custom directives and so-called interpreted text roles. Hence, it seemed
>> possible to use rST to mark-up text such that the output back-end would
>>
> use
>
>> different Braille translators as required, eg. for text including math,
>> music etc.
>>
>> 4. The reference implementation to process rST sources is Docutils
>> (http://docutils.sourceforge.net/). It can generate HTML, LaTeX, Beamer,
>> pdf, OpenOffice and other output formats from rST sources. Why not
>> ready-to-emboss plain text?
>>
>> 5. So a few months ago I started Transcribo.
>> (Homepage: http://transcribo.berlios.de
>> Download daily snapshots from the Mercurial repository at:
>> http://hg.berlios.de/repos/transcribo/archive/tip.tar.bz2
>>
>> Transcribo is currently a plain text back-end for Docutils. However, its
>> three-tier architecture makes it open to other input formats such as
>>
> LaTeX,
>
>> odf, RTF, xml, plain text or whatever. The core of Transcribo is a
>>
> rendering
>
>> package that generates a tree structure of frames. A frame can be thought
>>
> of
>
>> as a freely placeable, rectangular area on paper. The frames API is
>>
> flexible
>
>> enough to represent all kinds of lists, tables, multiple columns,
centered
>> headings, and much more. Each frame may contain objects carrying content
>>
> of
>
>> any type. Each content object may be given dedicated translator
instances,
>> wrappers with or without hyphenation etc. In particular, Transcribo
>>
> supports
>
>> liblouis as a translator for content to populate frames. Finally, the
>> frame-tree representation of the input file is assembled to form a plain
>> text file.
>>
>> The bridge between Docutils and the frame renderer (in Docutils
>>
> terminology
>
>> this is called a writer) supports a subset of reStructuredText. Current
>> features include headings, paragraphs, hyperlinks, emphasized text style,
>> multi-level bullet lists and enumerations. Adding new features is often a
>> matter of a few lines of code. Transcribo's renderer is configured
through
>> Python dictionaries. Future versions may prefer other formats such as
JSON
>> or xml. The Docutils writer is mainly configured using the Docutils
>> configuration system, i.e. a config file and command line options. But
>>
> this
>
>> is still somewhat rudimentary. However, a command line option to choose
>>
> the
>
>> default translator is already implemented.
>>
>> 6. While Transcribo works with various translators, liblouis is currently
>> the most important one as it supports so many languages and math.
>>
>> 7. Transcribo might benefit from some refinement, testing and bug-fixing
>> before the first public release. Also, I'd like to make sure that users
>>
> can
>
>> easily install liblouis. When I tried to install it, I had some problems:
>> - finding the dll which is not on googlecode. John kindly pointed me to
>>
> the
>
>> page.
>> - copying the dll manually into the Windows/system32 directory
>> - downloading the liblouis sources
>> - installing the Python bindings
>> - copying some tables to a reasonable place
>>
>> 8. I'd like to see liblouis on the Python package index (pypi) so it can
>>
> be
>
>> installed automatically using setuptools. To this end, the dll needs to
be
>> bundled with the Python bindings, some tables and the C sources. On Unix
>> systems, the sources would need to be compiled, on Win32, the dll needs
to
>> be installed, preferrably in the package directory rather than the
>> windows/system32 dir as users do not always have admin privileges. It
>>
> would
>
>> be just great if the Python gurus on this list could make an effort.
>> Clearly, I would help write the setup script, although I don't know off
>>
> hand
>
>> how to tell distutils to compile a shared library that is not a C
>>
> extension
>
>> module.
>>
>> Also, I would welcome any feedback and/or help on Transcribo. There is a
>> mailing list (see the homepage). It is not yet in use though. So feel
free
>> to join.
>>
>> Warm regards
>>
>> Leo
>>
>>
>>
>> For a description of the software and to download it go to
>> http://www.jjb-software.com
>>
>>
> For a description of the software and to download it go to
> http://www.jjb-software.com
>
> For a description of the software and to download it go to
> http://www.jjb-software.com
>
For a description of the software and to download it go to
http://www.jjb-software.com
For a description of the software and to download it go to
http://www.jjb-software.com
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