Art: Just as an a side, I am sure that you know the Leica realized the early R8s had problems, and made good by bringing those that were sent in for service up to "current standards" free of charge. I had mine done at least several years ago, and so far so good. If you still have the R8 it might be worth giving Leica service a call to see if yours still qualifies for such an upgrade. Elliot ----- Original Message ----- From: NATSTEK@xxxxxxx To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 6:39 PM Subject: [LRFlex] Re: wbill I'm Sorry Guy's, You may actually find one of the one or two good ALPA's that were manufactured. All kidding aside, I also had an 11Si for awhile, you know, to give the marke another chance. Well, lo and behold, it was actually trouble-free for 4 whole rolls of film........ NUFF SAID. I've had better Exacta's. As far as the Rollei's are concerned, I've had and used successfully, 2 SL's, and 2 SL35E's, one silver chrome and one black chrome, (with winder!) I also had several Zeiss Rollei lenses, 28, 50's, 1.4 & 1.8's 85, 1.4, 135, 2.8, and a 180 Olympia Sonnar! Nice though they were, I traded all for a R8 body & late 35 f/2 Summicron. The R8 was an early one and a TOTAL DOG, you know, FUBAR!! Bad trade! Art Tafil