[LRflex] Re: canon 5D and leica R lens
- From: "Dave Saalsaa" <dsaalsaa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:21:15 -0500
Jerry, my experience is similar to Doug's and David's. I have quite a few
Leitz/Leica lenses that I use on my Canon 20D and generally get very good
results with them. Doug is right that while Canon's lenses can work very
well, typically the wide angle lenses and in fact most of the lenses from
Leica perform very well wide open. I am shopping for a tele zoom lens right
now as I cannot see well enough to focus my 400mm Telyt and may have to go
to AF there. Modern Canon L optics in the long end are very, very good and
much better than the lens that Doug had. I have seen the results from the
EF 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4 and the EF 100-400 L f/4.5 zoom lenses and they are
every bit as good as Leitz glass but they also are very expensive. Third
party long lenses don't particularly interest me although I do have a Tokina
EF-S 12-24mm lens that is outstanding and one of my favorite lenses on the
20D. It is every bit as sharp as my Leica glass and color is excellent and
matches well with my Leica glass. I have manufactured an EOS to Minolta SR
adapter which allows me to use my Minolta lenses on the 20D. My main
purpose was to allow me to use the Minolta 50mm f/3.5 macro which is one of
the sharpest lenses I have ever used. Old Minolta SR mount lenses match
very well with Leica lenses in terms of color and fingerprint. The downside
of the adapter is infinity focus is not possible but I can use my portrait
lenses as portrait lenses still. So I can still use many of the favorite
lenses of mine and maintain the look that I am used to in terms of bokeh and
core sharpness. I am also interested in the 5D but right now funds will
have to go to a long lens which will most likely be a Canon AF model.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Herr" <telyt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 4:11 PM
Subject: [LRflex] Re: canon 5D and leica R lens
> Jerry, my experience with Canon L lenses is limited (one lens) but the
> difference between that lens (FD 400mm f/2.8 L) and every Leitz or
> Leica long lens I've used is WOW, particularly at maximum aperture -
> which is the whole point of a 400mm f/2.8. I sold the Canon lens.
>
> Doug Herr
> Birdman of Sacramento
> http://www.wildlightphoto.com
>
> On May 22, 2006, at 1:49 PM, Jerry Lehrer wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> I admit to having precious little experience (read, none) with Canon
>> SLR equipment and lenses, but I find it hard, if not impossible to
>> believe that Canon lenses are so vastly inferior to Leica R. Besides,
>> the Canon lenses have autofocus and proper wide open metering.
>>
>> BTW, how do Nikon SLR lenses compare with Leica R?
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> David Young wrote:
>>
>>> Steve Barbour asked:
>>>
>>>> Just wondering here on a Sunday morning... for a Canon 20 D owner who
>>>> uses leica R glass, how sensible is it to trade up to a Canon 5D
>>>> especially for leica R glass, but also for Canon glass, especially L
>>>> glass?
>>>
>>> Good Mornin' Steve!
>>>
>>> I've read the answers to your question, and though I'd add my "two
>>> cents worth", as I went from the 20d to the DM-R.
>>>
>>> Like you, I saw the 5d as the logical alternative. Lower cost and a
>>> virtually full frame sensor (crop factor of only 1.1.)
>>>
>>> I played with a friend's 5D and thought about it long and hard. I
>>> ended up with the DM-R for a variety of reasons.
>>>
>>> They were (in no particular order):
>>>
>>> 1- the DMR gave me automatic diaphragm. No more stop down
>>> metering or having to shoot virtually wide open.
>>>
>>> 2 - Although the 5D's finder is brighter than that of the 20D, it
>>> is still nowhere near the brightness and clarity of the R8/9.
>>>
>>> 3 - The big complaint of all dSLR's is the inability to realize
>>> the quality inherent in just about any good quality lenses because
>>> the anti-aliasing filter (added to help reduce moire patterns)
>>> reduces resolution, and thus the rendition of fine detail. And every
>>> (repeat, every) dSLR on the market has one... except the DM-R. OTOH,
>>> Medium format digital camera backs do not have them, depending,
>>> instead, on software to reduce the problem when it occurs.
>>>
>>> Leica chose Imacon to develop the DMR, because of Imacon's position
>>> as a leader in Medium Format backs, and because they desperately
>>> needed a superior product in order to compete with the Japanese
>>> makers. Because of Imacon's expertise, I'm sure it never occurred to
>>> them to put an AA filter in the DMR. They installed the same
>>> post-processing software, into the DMR, that is in their MF backs.
>>>
>>> Now, it's true, that if you see a problem in a shot, you must re-set
>>> the camera and re-shoot. A very MF work flow, that does not really
>>> suit "35mm" photography. That being said, I have now shot just over
>>> 2000 frames with my DMR (since February) and I have had moire
>>> problems with exactly two (count 'em... 2) shots. And both were
>>> fixable, after the fact, during RAW processing.
>>>
>>> So, the trade off is 1998+ shots with better colour and much better
>>> resolution of fine detail vs. 2 shots which I had to fix in post
>>> processing because of the lack of an AA filter in the DMR.
>>>
>>> It seems like a fair trade, to me!
>>>
>>> 4 - Canon's L glass can be very good. No doubt about it. But, in
>>> many instances, it costs as much as Leica glass! If you need
>>> auto-focus for a particular purpose, you have no choice. But I find
>>> that Leica glass is more consistent, lens to lens, for colour
>>> rendition and image quality. Canon L glass, though often very good,
>>> is not as consistent.
>>>
>>> 5 - Price. Everybody tells me that the DM-R is sooooo much more
>>> expensive. And, if you have to buy the R8 or 9 to go with it, it's
>>> likely true. If, however, you are like me, with an R8 in hand, the
>>> price difference (in Canada) was about $1700. This is not small
>>> change, but given the prices of the alternatives, it is not a lot of
>>> money, either.
>>>
>>> Like Doug Herr, I find Ingemar's conclusions surprising, given the
>>> number of pros switching to Leica/DMR from Canon. (Not a huge
>>> number, it's true. But, it's been a long time since ANY pro switched
>>> to Leica from anything!)
>>>
>>> More importantly, I suspect that when Ingemar did his 5D/DMR
>>> comparisons, the DMR he tried had Firmware v1.1. That version had
>>> some serious white balance problems - although it was much improved
>>> over v1.0!
>>>
>>> When I developed my photos in my preferred software, Silkypix, I
>>> always tried the auto-white balance built into SilkyPix, and it was
>>> nearly always better. But since v1.2 came out (just a few weeks ago)
>>> the camera's white balance has always been better than that of
>>> SP. In fact, I now use most shots with the DMR's AWB without thought.
>>>
>>> Using v1.2 firmware, the noise levels have also improved. More
>>> importantly, for me, colour rendition is much more natural with the
>>> DMR than it is from Canon bodies (any of 'em!). Canon achieves lower
>>> 'noise' by heavily processing the data (even the RAW data) within the
>>> camera. It does work to reduce noise, but the images a 'plastic'
>>> look to them.
>>>
>>> In the days of film, we'd accept a bit more grain in return for a
>>> crisp, detailed image. That being said, I make 30x45cm (12x18")
>>> prints from DMR exposures made at ISO 1600 that have less 'noise'
>>> than the grain in any similar print made from well processed Tri-X
>>> exposed at ISO400. If that level of grain/noise is still more than
>>> the Canon's, so be it. To my eye, the DMR delivers a crisper
>>> looking, more naturally coloured print.
>>>
>>> These were the factors I looked at. Despite paying significantly more
>>> money, it is a decision I have not regretted for one moment. The
>>> R8/DM-R combination is simply the best image making machine I have
>>> ever used, during my 40+ years behind a camera.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> David Young,
>>> Logan Lake, CANADA
>>>
>>> Personal Web-site at: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt
>>> Limited Edition Prints at: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/prints.htm
>>> Leica Reflex Forum web-page: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/lrflex.htm
>
> ------
> Unsubscribe or change to/from Digest Mode at:
> http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/lrflex.htm
> Archives are at:
> //www.freelists.org/archives/leicareflex/
>
------
Unsubscribe or change to/from Digest Mode at:
http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/lrflex.htm
Archives are at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/leicareflex/
Other related posts:
