[LRflex] Re: canon 5D and leica R lens
- From: Douglas Herr <telyt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 14:11:54 -0700
Jerry, my experience with Canon L lenses is limited (one lens) but the
difference between that lens (FD 400mm f/2.8 L) and every Leitz or
Leica long lens I've used is WOW, particularly at maximum aperture -
which is the whole point of a 400mm f/2.8. I sold the Canon lens.
Doug Herr
Birdman of Sacramento
http://www.wildlightphoto.com
On May 22, 2006, at 1:49 PM, Jerry Lehrer wrote:
> David,
>
> I admit to having precious little experience (read, none) with Canon
> SLR equipment and lenses, but I find it hard, if not impossible to
> believe that Canon lenses are so vastly inferior to Leica R. Besides,
> the Canon lenses have autofocus and proper wide open metering.
>
> BTW, how do Nikon SLR lenses compare with Leica R?
>
> Jerry
>
> David Young wrote:
>
>> Steve Barbour asked:
>>
>>> Just wondering here on a Sunday morning... for a Canon 20 D owner who
>>> uses leica R glass, how sensible is it to trade up to a Canon 5D
>>> especially for leica R glass, but also for Canon glass, especially L
>>> glass?
>>
>> Good Mornin' Steve!
>>
>> I've read the answers to your question, and though I'd add my "two
>> cents worth", as I went from the 20d to the DM-R.
>>
>> Like you, I saw the 5d as the logical alternative. Lower cost and a
>> virtually full frame sensor (crop factor of only 1.1.)
>>
>> I played with a friend's 5D and thought about it long and hard. I
>> ended up with the DM-R for a variety of reasons.
>>
>> They were (in no particular order):
>>
>> 1- the DMR gave me automatic diaphragm. No more stop down
>> metering or having to shoot virtually wide open.
>>
>> 2 - Although the 5D's finder is brighter than that of the 20D, it
>> is still nowhere near the brightness and clarity of the R8/9.
>>
>> 3 - The big complaint of all dSLR's is the inability to realize
>> the quality inherent in just about any good quality lenses because
>> the anti-aliasing filter (added to help reduce moire patterns)
>> reduces resolution, and thus the rendition of fine detail. And every
>> (repeat, every) dSLR on the market has one... except the DM-R. OTOH,
>> Medium format digital camera backs do not have them, depending,
>> instead, on software to reduce the problem when it occurs.
>>
>> Leica chose Imacon to develop the DMR, because of Imacon's position
>> as a leader in Medium Format backs, and because they desperately
>> needed a superior product in order to compete with the Japanese
>> makers. Because of Imacon's expertise, I'm sure it never occurred to
>> them to put an AA filter in the DMR. They installed the same
>> post-processing software, into the DMR, that is in their MF backs.
>>
>> Now, it's true, that if you see a problem in a shot, you must re-set
>> the camera and re-shoot. A very MF work flow, that does not really
>> suit "35mm" photography. That being said, I have now shot just over
>> 2000 frames with my DMR (since February) and I have had moire
>> problems with exactly two (count 'em... 2) shots. And both were
>> fixable, after the fact, during RAW processing.
>>
>> So, the trade off is 1998+ shots with better colour and much better
>> resolution of fine detail vs. 2 shots which I had to fix in post
>> processing because of the lack of an AA filter in the DMR.
>>
>> It seems like a fair trade, to me!
>>
>> 4 - Canon's L glass can be very good. No doubt about it. But, in
>> many instances, it costs as much as Leica glass! If you need
>> auto-focus for a particular purpose, you have no choice. But I find
>> that Leica glass is more consistent, lens to lens, for colour
>> rendition and image quality. Canon L glass, though often very good,
>> is not as consistent.
>>
>> 5 - Price. Everybody tells me that the DM-R is sooooo much more
>> expensive. And, if you have to buy the R8 or 9 to go with it, it's
>> likely true. If, however, you are like me, with an R8 in hand, the
>> price difference (in Canada) was about $1700. This is not small
>> change, but given the prices of the alternatives, it is not a lot of
>> money, either.
>>
>> Like Doug Herr, I find Ingemar's conclusions surprising, given the
>> number of pros switching to Leica/DMR from Canon. (Not a huge
>> number, it's true. But, it's been a long time since ANY pro switched
>> to Leica from anything!)
>>
>> More importantly, I suspect that when Ingemar did his 5D/DMR
>> comparisons, the DMR he tried had Firmware v1.1. That version had
>> some serious white balance problems - although it was much improved
>> over v1.0!
>>
>> When I developed my photos in my preferred software, Silkypix, I
>> always tried the auto-white balance built into SilkyPix, and it was
>> nearly always better. But since v1.2 came out (just a few weeks ago)
>> the camera's white balance has always been better than that of
>> SP. In fact, I now use most shots with the DMR's AWB without thought.
>>
>> Using v1.2 firmware, the noise levels have also improved. More
>> importantly, for me, colour rendition is much more natural with the
>> DMR than it is from Canon bodies (any of 'em!). Canon achieves lower
>> 'noise' by heavily processing the data (even the RAW data) within the
>> camera. It does work to reduce noise, but the images a 'plastic'
>> look to them.
>>
>> In the days of film, we'd accept a bit more grain in return for a
>> crisp, detailed image. That being said, I make 30x45cm (12x18")
>> prints from DMR exposures made at ISO 1600 that have less 'noise'
>> than the grain in any similar print made from well processed Tri-X
>> exposed at ISO400. If that level of grain/noise is still more than
>> the Canon's, so be it. To my eye, the DMR delivers a crisper
>> looking, more naturally coloured print.
>>
>> These were the factors I looked at. Despite paying significantly more
>> money, it is a decision I have not regretted for one moment. The
>> R8/DM-R combination is simply the best image making machine I have
>> ever used, during my 40+ years behind a camera.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> ---
>>
>> David Young,
>> Logan Lake, CANADA
>>
>> Personal Web-site at: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt
>> Limited Edition Prints at: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/prints.htm
>> Leica Reflex Forum web-page: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/lrflex.htm
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