Axel Collier >>> I am looking for a 500mm or 400mm tele to experiment and learn to take bird and wildlife photo's. Of course you know by now i am not an expert ;-) You also know i will be using the lens with Leitax and (hopefully) in the future with a D700. The leica miror lens can easily be transformed into a Leitax, the 560mm as well but not all the 400mm's (it depends on the serial number, it must be an old lens) <<< The 400mm and 560mm f/6.8 Telyts use the same camera mount tube and is independent of the serial number. >>> The technique for me will be a real challenge, but that will be the case anyway. Would it be harder for me to learn with the big lenses or with the miror lens ? <<< Hard to say for certain which will be more difficult to learn with. The sliding focus of the f/6.8 Telyts takes some getting used to vs. the 500's familiar rotating ring focus. IMHO the sliding focus, particularly on the 400, is easier and quicker to use once you've re-programmed your eye/hand coordination. >>> THIS kind of information i find very exciting : http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?th87 <<< Broken link :( >>> But i did not find so much on the mirror lenses. I find the compact size and weight a real plus, so i wonder ... If the miror lens is not an option, i will go for the 400mm/560mm solution i think. Of course i know by now about the usual stuff (donuts f/8 etcetera) in general terms, but what does that mean in practice ? <<< http://www.wildlightphoto.com/birds/picidae/acwo01.html I found that I was avoiding backgrounds that demonstrated the light fall-off toward the corners and the harsh bokeh (this was a Nikon 500mm f/8 mirror lens) If you plan to convert the lens to Nikon mount, also consider a Nikon mirror lens. The f/6.8 Telyts are unique and as such are conversion-worthy. The Leitz (minolta) mirror lens may have some handling advantages over the Nikon model because the surface where you can rest the lens in your hand is bigger but I don't think this is a big advantage, and no advantage at all when the lens is used on a tripod. Doug Herr Birdman of Sacramento http://www.wildlightphoto.com ------ Unsubscribe or change to/from Digest Mode at: http://www.lrflex.furnfeather.net/ Archives are at: //www.freelists.org/archives/leicareflex/