[kegswindows] Re: configuring network

  • From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:16:06 -0700

Pat,
From my experience, even a clean install won't fix a driver issue if the
database of hardware doesn't have an .inf file to tell Win98 what kind of
hardware it is.  Most motherboard manufacturers include a disk with those
.inf files.  If he does reinstall, and Win98 can't find the .inf file and
load the driver, then we know that it's a mainboard problem.  If Win98
reloads, and it finds the PCI Bridge drivers, then it was old enough to be
included.  He can try to individually extract the file from the CABs which
could be time consuming, or quicker than a reinstall depending on how easy
it is to find.  A reinstall may also be a good idea just to put down clean
"stuff" anyway.  Kurt may be able to download what he needs from the
manufacturer's site if he can identify the make, model and board rev and and
bios rev to get the right download.  I recommend he bring it to Joe Mraz's
hardware clinic, so they can help diagnose and triage.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Pat Russell
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 11:20 PM
To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network




I haven't been following all of this.  My understanding is the history goes
like this:
He started out trying to network two PCs together.  One seemed to go ok.
The other did weird things.  From there on the focus was on the weird PC.  A
bunch of stuff was tried.  Then he noticed that he had problems with the PCI
drivers which were chained after the Linksys, a network card.  I am assuming
that the PC was generally working until the network card was popped in.  By
now all the "standard" stuff has been tried and its time to try whatever
anyone can think of.  At this point someone suggested deleting the problem
"PCI" devices.  The idea was to let them reinstall and hope that cleared up
the problem.  The problem is they didn't reinstall.  I agree with you that
this is motherboard stuff.  But it used to be there.  It came from
somewhere.  My theory is that there are some hardware detect routines that
only run during OS install and that these routines are not running during a
boot.  So the hardware is not detecting and the proper routines are not
being installed.  Your theory is that the routines are not shipped with the
version of the OS that he is running and that's why the routines are not
installing.  Based on my theory I suggested an OS reinstall.  That would run
the "install only" detect routines and reinstall the drivers, if I am right.
But if he can find a software CD for his current motherboard and run it the
drivers should reinstall whether you are right or whether I am right.

So here's the bottom line:  If he can find some software that goes with his
current motherboard he should run it.  It can't hurt.  If he can't then it's
more likely that I am right and a reinstall is worth trying.  At that point
(no motherboard software) he couldn't do what you suggest.  So my suggestion
is the only remaining option.

-----Original Message-----
From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of David M. Dodge
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:05 PM
To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network


Pat,

THe PCI Bridge is a support chipset component that allows the PCI bus to
talk to the CPU (and sometimes to the ISA bus).  THis can be very chipset
specific.  This allows the interrupts to be passed to the bus to communicate
to the CPU and back down again.  Each chipset needs a driver ot make it all
work.  There are and have been chipsets released after Win98 was released.
Via and SiS to name a few.  Since Win 98 can't find the PCI Bridge driver in
it's own files, I suspect that the driver was installed from CD and it is on
the motherboard support CD-ROM.    If Kurt has changed his PC since he
purchased it and it sounds like some of the support techs have had him
uninstall it, it will make things very difficult to get everything working
correctly. Even Windows2000 had issues once Via kept releasing chipsets, so
loading that was fun.

The issue may be anywhere between the two mainboards and the connections.
the cards appeared to be ok, but he is using a crossover cable and not a hub
or switch, and it's only two pc's.  Hooling two pc's together isn't rocket
science, until you have hardware issues manifest themselves.  Kurt has
eliminated the most common networking mistakes like workgroup name, ip
addressing so you are on the same subnet...  This may be a deeper
hardware/driver issue and dumping the PCI Bridge controller driver isn't
helping much.

That sound logical?

David


-----Original Message-----
From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Pat Russell
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:12 PM
To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network




I am wondering if the LINKSYS isn't messing up the rest.  You can now
"chain" drivers for multiple devices on a single interrupt.  That's how you
can get these 5 guys all working, if they were working.  I am wondering if
the linksys is not following the chaining rules.  It is supposed to pass any
interrupt along to the rest of the chain if the interrupt is not for it.  If
it is not passing things on then the other routines won't see them and they
won't work right.

On reinstalling the drivers (this is in response to a later message) you may
be SOL.  I think the deal is the device detection routines that run when the
OS is installed detect and install drivers for this kind of
motherboard-oriented stuff.  Once the OS installation is complete the
detection routines for these kinds of hardware are never run again.  So the
only thing you can do is reinstall the OS.

This is not as bad as it sounds.  You just install the OS on top of itself.
The install behaves like an upgrade install.  So it will carry a lot of your
settings over to the new OS.  Your software should be in pretty good shape.
But you will need to redo all your drivers that don't come with the OS.  You
will also have to redo any fixes like service packs or Windows Update stuff.
And you may find you have other problems.  So if you can do a backup before
trying this I would recommend it.  But I am pretty sure it would reinstall
your PCI devices.

Good luck.

-----Original Message-----
From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of David M. Dodge
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 7:51 AM
To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network


Kurt,

The devices are a problem if they do not work.
PCI bus
        Linksys...
        PCI Bridge---This one conects the PCI Bus to the CPU.
        PCI Input Controller---Could be a mouse or graphics pad or some
serial device
        PCI Mass Storage Controller---Either an onboard IDE controller(like
a Promise or HPT RAID controller or SCSI)
        PCI Multimedia audio device--Sound Card..This can wait


From the looks of it , you have unrecognized devices either built in on the
motherboard or you have not loaded controller drivers.  I would install the
latest updates from the mainboard manufacturer.
These not working can cause some probelms as the devices can't be controlled
and if assigned an IRQ ont he bus, they may have a conflict with a device
with a driver.

you may have to bring that Machine to Joe Mraz's Hardware helper SIG so they
can see if it connects and help you work out the problems,

David


-----Original Message-----
From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt Mincin
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:08 AM
To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network




David, I had a neighbor help me today with my configuration.  He mentioned
something that I'd like to run by you.  In Device Manager, viewing by
connection, it shows...

PCI bus
        Linksys...
        PCI Bridge
        PCI Input Controller
        PCI Mass Storage Controller
        PCI Multimedia audio device

(In case those carriage returns get messed when I send this email, the PCI
bus has those five devices under it in the tree.)

The question has to do with the yellow "?" "!" next to the last 4 devices
(bridge, input controller, mass storage controller, and the multimedia audio
device).  I realize the "?" and "!" indicate the device is not set up.  He
said this could possibly be related to my configuration problems...he
emphasized POSSIBLY, not for sure.  What's your take on it?

If it is related, can I deactivate those problem devices in order to
temporarily set up the network to transfer the driver from the other machine
(onto which I downloaded the driver) to machine in need?

Kurt
http://www.myildportal.com
ref #: 1827854, pass: guest
----- Original Message -----
From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 8:25 AM
Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network


>
> Kurt,
> 1000-10FF is the address range for the card.  Do you have both computers
> hooked up and the test running?  The IUO test won't work unless you have
> both in test mode, so you can attampt to send and receive.  I would
> recommend yoiu get a book on Win98 it should cover networking the two PC's
> together.  the best way is to have a 5 port hub or preferably a switch as
> you don't need a crossover cable.  This can help to eliminate some issues
> you appear to have plus if a friend comes over with a laptop, you can
> connect him into the network to share files. A small hub is under 70$ and
> usually much cheaper.
>
> david
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt Mincin
> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 11:02 PM
> To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
>
>
>
>
> David,
>
> I ran the Linksys diag. disk on the problem computer and it shows...
>
> "IRQ255 PortA400 (this IRQ seems a bit odd)"
>
> "Configuration test    Pass"
> "I/O test  (gets stuck here...computer just makes a continuous beep tone
> until I turn it off)"
>
> Assuming the I/O radio button in 'view resources' is what this refers to,
I
> see...
>
> "1000 - 10FF  Linksys"
>
> in this list.
>
> What does this mean?
>
> Thanks
> Kurt
> http://www.myildportal.com
> ref #: 1827854, pass: guest
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 9:39 AM
> Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
>
>
> >
> > Kurt,
> > That should be where you assign IRQ's to cards in those slots.  For the
> > Netgear card, setting one of these might have worked.  Usually PCI cards
> > self negotiate the IRQ level and resolve conflicts during the POST
> process.
> > David
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt Mincin
> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 10:41 PM
> > To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David, I thought the following information would be useful to help me
> > configure my network...
> >
> > In BIOS there's the Advanced tab which has the PCI configuration option.
> On
> > the PCI page there's
> > Slot 1    [auto]
> > Slot 2    [auto]
> > Slot 3    [auto]
> > Slot 4/5 [auto]
> >
> > Do these IRQs correspond to the ones in Device Manager?
> > I have the NIC card in slot 2.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kurt
> > http://www.myildportal.com
> > ref #: 1827854, pass: guest
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:46 AM
> > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Kurt,
> > > sounds like the Netgear NICs want to use a specific IRQ and it must be
> > > dedicated to the slot.  you will have to go into BIOS and try to set a
> > > specific slot.  If the board isn't that old, you may be able to do
this,
> > > otherwise get another NIC like an Intel or 3Com,  I have had good luck
> > with
> > > Linksys and they are a bit cheaper than the intel and 3com NICs.  We
> have
> > > had some problems with system config and Netgear cards where we
couldn't
> > get
> > > them on the network and nothing we did worked.  some folks have had no
> > > problems though, so it may be highly hardware dependent.  It sounds
like
> > the
> > > Netgear folks are giving you the right info. Each vendor has their own
> > > specific policy regarding sales.  My guess is that HDNW can build PCs
> but
> > > the techs are not knowledgable about networking and can't figure out
how
> > to
> > > set up a NIC and check it out to make sure it works.  Supporting
> > networking
> > > is not easy as so many different things can cause problems as you are
> now
> > > discovering.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt Mincin
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:00 AM
> > > To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > David, I got a reply email from Netgear in which he says to "check
with
> a
> > > hardware vendor to assign a free IRQ of either 9, 10, or 11 to the PCI
> > slot
> > > where the NIC is being installed."  I got the cards from Hard Drives
NW,
> > > but they said that they don't support networking.  I emailed a reply
to
> > > Netgear tonight about this, but I wanted to ask you about it also.  It
> > seems
> > > a bit odd to not support something that you sell, but I bought all my
> > > components for the computer from there because of the 1 year warranty.
> > >
> > > Anyway, do these IRQ settings sound right?  Also, are the IRQs in
Device
> > > Manager the same as those in BIOS?
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 9:53 AM
> > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Kurt,
> > > >
> > > > That's a good indicator of machine problems.  when yoiu move the
"bad
> > > card"
> > > > to another machine and it behaves normally and the "good card"
becomes
> > bad
> > > > in the other machine is a very good indicator of card chassis
> > > > incompatability.  I would check the BIOS on the suspect machine to
see
> > if
> > > it
> > > > has any network settings that may conflict or that it is restricting
> or
> > > > locking down the IRQ's on the PCI slots for legacy hardware.  You
may
> > have
> > > > to get another brand of NIC to try and see if that is an issue.
> Without
> > > > benching the two together and seeing how they react, it cold be a
> > > > combination of hardware and software in settings for both.  Tough to
> > tell,
> > > > you now know that both cards are good, now you need to investigate
why
> > the
> > > > one PC works with a NIC and the other one doesn't.
> > > > Good Luck,
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt Mincin
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 10:08 PM
> > > > To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > David, if I can switch NIC cards between computers and the
diagnostics
> > on
> > >
> > > > machine A remains ok (displays card stats), while on machine B the
> > > > diagnostics still displays an error, doesn't that mean that there's
> > > > something wrong with machine B itself?
> > > >
> > > > On the problem computer I did move the card to another PCI slot and
> > still
> > > > got a diagnostic error.
> > > >
> > > > Kurt
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 5:42 PM
> > > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > I would move the card to another PCI slot and if you get the same
> > error
> > > on
> > > > > the diagnostics, then the card has problems. The other thing to
> check
> > is
> > > > to
> > > > > see if both cards are set to full duplex.  Are both cards the same
> > brand
> > > > and
> > > > > are they both 10/100?  you may have a bad PCI slot or there is a
PCI
> > > > > conflict.  You may want to make sure in bios that you have not
> > reserved
> > > > all
> > > > > the pci slots to ISA just in case. If the diagnostic utility can't
> see
> > > the
> > > > > NIC then you ought to try another card altogether.  You can get
> NIC's
> > > for
> > > > > aroung $20 so that shouln't kill the finances.  If the card is
new,
> > then
> > > > get
> > > > > a replacement at the store where you bought it.
> > > > >
> > > > > David
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt Mincin
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 8:34 AM
> > > > > To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > David, I tried the diagnostic/driver diskette on both machines.
The
> > > > machine
> > > > > that displays "response timed out" from pinging also gets a
> diagnostic
> > > > error
> > > > > that the network adapter is not found.  The machine that displays
a
> > > reply
> > > > > from pinging also lists the stats of the adapter, which I assume
> means
> > > > it's
> > > > > ok.  On the problem machine with diagnostic error it says to:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) check that there's a card installed
> > > > > 2) check that the PCI configuration in BIOS is set, otherwise...
> > > > > 3) switch adapter cards to see if the machine is the problem
> > > > >
> > > > > I still get the diagnostic error.  I'm not sure what to do next.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Kurt
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:17 PM
> > > > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > If you get a response from one side, the cable and network cards
> are
> > > ok.
> > > > > > You should be able to get another from the other side.  What are
> > your
> > > IP
> > > > > > addresses and subnet masks you are using for each computer?  Are
> you
> > > > using
> > > > > > Fixed IP addresses or is the address being automatically given
to
> > one
> > > or
> > > > > > both computers?  Have you enabled internet connection sharing?
> If
> > > you
> > > > > got
> > > > > > a complete response with the address and got a time (ie 10ms)
for
> > the
> > > > ping
> > > > > > with a 100% packet success rate, you should have a good
connection
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > addresses are on the same subnet.  I would run the diagnosic
> program
> > > > that
> > > > > > came with the network card on the computer that keeps getting a
> > > response
> > > > > > timed out, may have an issue. but the one that is getting the
> > > successful
> > > > > > ping may not be responding to a ping and therefore may be the
> > problem
> > > > NIC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > [mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt
Mincin
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:22 PM
> > > > > > To: kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David, thanks.  I enabled file and print sharing and it got me a
> bit
> > > > > > further, but still not there.  Each computer's Network
> Neighborhood
> > > now
> > > > > > shows 'entire network' (as before) and the computer itself
(which
> it
> > > was
> > > > > not
> > > > > > before), but still not the other computer.  When pinging, one
> > computer
> > > > > gets
> > > > > > a reply, the other gets 'response timed out'.  I might add that
> it's
> > > the
> > > > > new
> > > > > > computer displaying 'response timed out'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The WOWN site says that it's most likely a hardware issue, but
> both
> > > > > network
> > > > > > cards are working according to device manager in the system
> > > properties.
> > > > I
> > > > > > don't know how to test the cable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope that's clear
> > > > > > Thanks again
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "David M. Dodge" <daviddodge1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > To: <kegswindows@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 5:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [kegswindows] Re: configuring network
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > > Do you have File and print sharing enabled on both computers,
if
> > > not,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > youy won't see anything as the netbios stack won't be loaded,
> > which
> > > is
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > you need to see the other system.
> > > > > > > David Dodge
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > [mailto:kegswindows-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kurt
> Mincin
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 2:20 PM
> > > > > > > To: KEGS (Windows) SIG
> > > > > > > Subject: [kegswindows] configuring network
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > OK.  I've two computers, both with WIN98, Netgear Network
> > Interface
> > > > Card
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > each, a 25' CAT5 Crossover cable.  When I double-click on the
> > > Network
> > > > > > > Neighborhood, then Entire Network, I get "unable to browse
> > network".
> > > > I
> > > > > > > called Netgear and they gave me some websites for reference.
I
> > used
> > > > > > > www.wown.com to configure the tcp/ip > netgear protocol and
the
> IP
> > > > > address
> > > > > > > that the site recommends.  They suggest testing the connection
> > using
> > > > > PING.
> > > > > > > From one system I got "request timed out".  From the other
> system
> > I
> > > > got
> > > > > > > "destination host unreachable".  For the "unreachable" error
the
> > > site
> > > > > says
> > > > > > > to check the gateway address because the other system is not
on
> > the
> > > > same
> > > > > > > subnet.  I tried the gateway address given on the site and got
> the
> > > > > > > "destination host unreachable" error again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can anyone help me to get these computers talking?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > Kurt Mincin
> > > > > > >
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