For some reasons, none of my posts have gone through since Tues, although other people's have...I'm working on that with "freelists.org" In the meantime, I'm sending my posts from another account...please excuse the "multiple posts" if my original ones magical appear in the future! In the last day and a half, I'm discovering more about why my students do so poorly on finals in my class. I have yet to hear of another teacher giving a "real" final besides me and one of the biology teachers. These are the comments I've heard so far: "My teacher gave us the questions in class ahead of time during the review" (I guess they went through them verbally). "My final was opinion questions" "My final was reflection questions" "That was the most pointless, waste of a time it was so easy" And I won't even go into the finals in classes such as "aerobics" or "weight lifting" Combine this idea of other classes not giving "real" finals that test the students with our waiver policy, the fact that we don't have +/- grades and with the fact that the weighting is so low that it doesn't "affect" many people (I've had a final change 2 students' grades so far out of about 50)...it's no wonder my kids walk in and flunk it and don't care! Now the question is...do I keep "fighting" it and giving them finals that they flunk...or do I give in as the others have and give "fluff" finals to satisfy our principal that requires that a final be given in each class? Kelly I'm forwarding to the list because it's an interesting point to consider--the trickle-down-effect. I personally never had "comprehensive" finals in college...but I went to a complete block plan school where "comprehensive" covered 3.5 weeks--and most classes were so crammed for time that they didn't take time to take a "last test" and then a separate "comprehensive" final as well. Many classes did have a final project--writing in some classes, lab practicals in many science classes, etc. In Grad School, I never had a comprehensive final either...usually we had a cumulative project (such as a curriculum to develop) that we presented at the end. My mom is a prof at Univ of Central Florida and this semester she gave her students a choice of having a last test or a comprehensive final...she had students that chose both and so she gave both...I haven't asked her yet which benefited students more gradewise. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: Terry Tinich [mailto:tinicht@xxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Mon 12/19/2005 3:39 PM To: Deters, Kelly Cc: Subject: reply I don't know if you got my first letter. Just wondering -- ask your past students how many of them actually take "finals". I've done it for years (finals) but more and more, both from larger universities to smaller private colleges, finals are nothing more than another test and are not comprehensive. Our high school kids are getting wind of this and this is their argument -- along with the 10-15% grade which, I agree, only affects a few of them. Plus the empathy of "heck, an 81- 87, they are both still B's"!! Glad to hear we all have the same problem -- now we just need a solution. Terry Tinich Pomona High __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************** Replying to this email will send it to the entire group--use individual email addresses if you wish to direct a response to individual members. To post to the mailing list, send email to kact@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe, change your settings or to search the archives, visit //www.freelists.org/list/kact