[jhb_airlines] Re: Why is FPI/ATOC so bad?

  • From: "Bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:20:52 +0100

I must add that I now have my own problems sorted.

I haven't used ATOC for a long time so it was no surprise when I logged in
last night to help Phil that I encountered some problems. I was surprised
how long FS froze after hitting the Server button and then, when it finally
jumped back into life, I could see no aircraft. Denis and Phil appeared on
the TCAS OK - and they both appeared as yellow dots in the airfield diagram
- but visually there wasn't a sausage.

I had a tinker with a few settings but eventually found the solution when I
checked the firewall logs. For some reason it had started blocking port
15201. I reset the firewall to clear all FS9 rules and then tried again.
This time it worked and I watched an FPI 747 depart from Gatwick. I followed
it at a safe distance up to 4000ft and then disengaged to the north - my
apologies to the VBA pilot if he got worried.

The only small problem left is that FS9 locks when I turn off the Server
button but I can live with that. It may be something to do with the MS test
software I have installed.

bones

-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 27 August 2005 12:31
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Why is FPI/ATOC so bad?


Mike,
For what it's worth, I've also tried "booking" my long hauls, ahead. No
ATC. To be fair, I only booked on one occasion.
I guess I should make that a matter of routine, to see if it improves.

Gerry Winskill
gwinsk@xxxxxxx


Mike Brook wrote:

>Thanks guys, I've calmed down this morning and your sensible and
>reasoned replies are appreciated.  I had spent a long time preparing
>for my long haul last night and was SOOOO disappointed when ATOC let me
>down, my post was indicative of my level of frustration <g>.  I've no
>intention of trying VATSIM, or IVAO for that matter, and will stick
>with FPI in the hope that it gets sorted in the near future...
>
>Cheers
>MikeB
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
>>Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 8:17 AM
>>To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Why is FPI/ATOC so bad?
>>
>>
>>Hi Mike,
>>Not sitting on the fence, too painful by far, but I find myself
>>agreeing with you, whilst coming to the same conclusion as Bones.
>>
>>I've done a few long haul flights recently and on only two has there
>>been ATC at the destination. One was the "please dismantle your
>>aircraft and b....r off" place. The other didn't really count as,
>>seeing John Hill on seat, I made my Capetown to UK flight take me to
>>Heathrow. Even
>>then we had, as seems to be the norm at present, problems with voice
>>comms. Clicking on John's ATOC strip got me nowhere and the Servinfo
>>frequency was also different from the one he was using. In most
>>countries outside Europe it would appear there are few FPI controller
>>members.
>>
>> Again like you, I've flicked through the two competitor lists and
>>found them to be full of both controllers and traffic.
>>
>>Taking a step back, for the reasons John mentions, I'm reluctant to go
>>to VATSIM. I don't know much about IVAO. The relaxed approach of FPI
>>suits me, so I guess that if I choose to stay with it I'll be
>>stuck with
>>its limitations. The limitations are the narrow geographical
>>area where
>>it offers actual, as opposed to notional, ATC coverage, plus the
>>increasingly tetchy nature of its server setup. I guess they
>>are stuck
>>with the former but really should get a grip of the latter.
>>That is far
>>more important than the company speak and pseudo marketing
>>that seems to
>>be increasingly evident. The simple fact is that FPI and the
>>pilot end
>>are not really interdependent. No flyers an no FPI. No FPI and the
>>flyers can either look at the competition or fly off line,
>>with FS ATC
>>and AI for company.
>>
>> At the moment my own intention is to stay with FPI. I enjoy the
>>Wednesday sessions, when not distracted by bikes or football. I'll
>>also start more flying to continental European destinations,
>>though even that
>>isn't easy. My guess is that the bulk of the controllers are younger
>>than the pilots and still having to work for a living. I
>>often switch on
>>Servinfo, during the day, to find a healthy number of aircrafy in
>>European zones, with not a controller to be seen.
>>
>>For long haul flights I've tended to file a flight plan, which is also
>>lodged with FS9. If there's no FPI cover I take off in FS9's ATC
>>environment but as VFR. That allows me to depart from a field
>>with other
>>traffic in sight, receive taxi instructions, etc; provided
>>the weather
>>isn't IFR but avoided FS9's often illogical IFR departure
>>routing. Once
>>clear of land I switch to FPI and keep an eye on Servinfo. If
>>there's no
>>sign of life around my destination, with a couple of hundred miles to
>>go, I get out of FPI and MP and ask FS9 for IFR clearance.
>>That gets me
>>back into the land of the pseudo living.
>>
>>I do hope that the people who run FPI can extract a digit but, since
>>I'm using it for free and doing nothing to help them, I guess
>>I'll have to
>>make the best of what they offer.
>>
>>Gerry Winskill
>>gwinsk@xxxxxxx
>>
>>Bones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>You seem to have had more of a rough time than most of us
>>>
>>>
>>recently. I admit
>>
>>
>>>I only tend to plug in once a week but that is usually for a
>>>
>>>
>>solid 3.5 to 4
>>
>>
>>>hours. I've had one or two hiccups but nothing so bad as to raise the
>>>frustration levels too much. Yep - I did have one night a
>>>
>>>
>>few weeks back
>>
>>
>>>when I was being kicked off every hour or so but it hasn't
>>>
>>>
>>been a recurring
>>
>>
>>>theme.
>>>
>>>If you are thinking of trying VATSIM then you will indeed
>>>
>>>
>>have a lot more
>>
>>
>>>traffic and controllers to contend with - but the level of
>>>
>>>
>>simulation is
>>
>>
>>>also much higher too. VATSIM stick to real world procedures
>>>
>>>
>>so you really
>>
>>
>>>have to know the airfield layouts, the SID's and STAR's
>>>
>>>
>>(current ones too)
>>
>>
>>>and have good cockpit management skills. Having said that it
>>>
>>>
>>is a challenge
>>
>>
>>>that some may relish as you know you will be mixing it with
>>>
>>>
>>a lot of real
>>
>>
>>>world airline pilots.
>>>
>>>There is no doubt that some of you will outgrow FPI. It
>>>
>>>
>>hasn't evolved as
>>
>>
>>>much as your own skills - a pity as I had hoped it would
>>>
>>>
>>have grown a lot
>>
>>
>>>more since we first started using it - and I am sure this lack of
>>>development will make some feel they are missing out on
>>>
>>>
>>better things.
>>
>>
>>>Before jumping in the deep end with VATSIM though I'd
>>>
>>>
>>recommend extending
>>
>>
>>>your experience outside the UK. If European controllers are
>>>
>>>
>>online in FPI
>>
>>
>>>then get some useful foreign experience under your belt. I
>>>
>>>
>>know it can be
>>
>>
>>>reassuring to speak to a familiar team in the UK but it's
>>>
>>>
>>best to build up
>>
>>
>>>experience. Europe in FPI (or even further) is a small step
>>>
>>>
>>compared with
>>
>>
>>>jumping in the deep end which is VATSIM.
>>>
>>>bones
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Brook
>>>Sent: 27 August 2005 00:58
>>>To: JHB Airlines
>>>Subject: [jhb_airlines] Why is FPI/ATOC so bad?
>>>
>>>
>>>I am rapidly reaching the point of abandoning FPI/ATOC due
>>>
>>>
>>to its frequent
>>
>>
>>>unavailability and failures.  At about 1130 local this
>>>
>>>
>>evening I was chucked
>>
>>
>>>out of their servers with the following error message:
>>>
>>>"Debug Assertion Failed!
>>>Program: C:\program files\FlightProject\ATOC.exe
>>>File: dumpout.cpp
>>>Line: 52
>>>For information on how your program can cause an assertion
>>>
>>>
>>failure, see the
>>
>>
>>>Visual C++ documentation on asserts. (Press Retry to debug
>>>
>>>
>>the application)"
>>
>>
>>>What the **** was that all about???
>>>
>>>I had spent a long time manually setting up my PMDG 747-400
>>>
>>>
>>FMC for an
>>
>>
>>>overnighter tonight from EGLL to WSSS when FPI/ATOC went
>>>
>>>
>>t*ts up.  What is
>>
>>
>>>the name of all that is holy is going on with this service?
>>>
>>>
>>Has anyone any
>>
>>
>>>info that could help restore my confidence?  Whilst I have
>>>
>>>
>>never used VATSIM
>>
>>
>>>or IVAO, it really does frustrate me to see all the
>>>
>>>
>>pilots/controllers
>>
>>
>>>available 24/7 on their servers whilst there are maybe have
>>>
>>>
>>a dozen or so
>>
>>
>>>folks worldwide on FPI or, more likely, the service is
>>>
>>>
>>completely down or
>>
>>
>>>otherwise unavailable in one way or another.
>>>
>>>Am I alone...?
>>>
>>>MikeB
>>>JHB193
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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