it will have to be follow the leader or faint a pc drop at the right moment
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Winskill" <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Procedure
As in FPI? Or as in follow my leader?
I always think that if I find myself faced with no option but reveal my total procedural ignorance, I can always press the ejector button, the one marked STOP, on the ATOC window....
Tom Smith wrote:
all this is giving me a bad head its back to the multi player flying for me
----- Original Message ----- *From:* Bones <mailto:bones@xxxxxxx> *To:* jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2005 6:00 AM *Subject:* [jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Procedure
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 20 October 2005 20:09
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Procedure
I'd noted the two different, Cat related, JSY departure courses. Which
brings us to the next one; is the CAT aircraft type specific, company
set, or what? The most common a/c flown by JHB, in the FPI sessions,
seem to be B737, A32*, F100. Are there specific CAT applying to
would it be a common one for the group covered?
I'll have to go to HTML for this email. Sorry for this but it will be easier to read..
How deeply do I dive in here?
In the past I have had quite a few innocent questions that have opened up huge chasms <g> but this one is a bit trickier.
I could answer it in a few lines but then I see the thin ice that it is leading towards - something I have been avoiding for a few years. I suppose it is inevitable but FS is getting so good that it is requiring more and more understanding of real world procedures and FPI amplifies this. I don't think we can avoid the thin ice much longer.
Topics I have covered in the past have been interesting to you (I hope) but I think we are now reaching a point where we are going to have to go further. I say I have been reluctant to delve into this area and this is because FS is supposed to be fun. My tutorials have mostly been on subjects like navigation or aircraft performance - meaty stuff that is a good and enjoyable read. Going onward is pressing us more and more against the doorway marked Rules and Regulations and I really do hesitate in pushing you through it.
The trouble is that all real pilots have to do a lot of ground school as part of their training. The trouble with FS (and FPI) is that you aren't PPL's because you all fly around in big tin - you are ATPL standard. The trouble is that all the groundwork is missing... The trouble is that I've avoided this groundwork as it is not exciting, meaty stuff. It's tougher stuff, not the least because some of it is dull.
I guess that we could possibly take it in stages and that we build up knowledge slowly.
Back to aircraft Categories. I'll just include a snippet from the docs to show you what that thin ice is covering..
*1 Holding and Approach to Land Procedures* 1.1 General
1.1.1 UK Holding and Instrument Approach Procedures are designed using criteria contained in ICAO Document 8168-OPS/611 (PANS-OPS) VOL II. These criteria include:
(a) The use of Obstacle Clearance Height (OCH) as the basic obstacle clearance element in calculating minima; (b) aeroplane categories related to speed, which can result in a reduction of Obstacle Clearance Heights for the more manoeuvrable aeroplanes; (c) the definition of a Missed Approach Point for non-precision procedures; (d) the use of the term 'Decision Height' in relation to precision procedures and 'Minimum Descent Height' in relation to nonprecision and Visual (Circling) procedures.
1.1.2 The UK Holding and Instrument Approach Procedures appear at AD 2.24.
1.1.3 PANS-OPS stresses the need for flight crew and operational personnel to adhere strictly to the published procedures in order to achieve and maintain an acceptable level of safety in operations. In addition, within the UK, procedures contained within Controlled Airspace are subject to Rule 31(3)(a) of the Rules of the Air Regulations 1996 (IFR within Controlled Airspace).
/Jump here to skip two sections on Visual Manoeuvring and VDF letdowns/.
3.10 Aircraft Categorization
Aircraft Category A - nominal Vat less than 91 kt IAS Aircraft Category B - nominal Vat 91 kt to 120 kt IAS Aircraft Category C - nominal Vat 121 kt to 140 kt IAS Aircraft Category D - nominal Vat 141 kt to 165 kt IAS Aircraft Category E - nominal Vat 166 kt to 210 kt IAS Note: Nominal Vat is defined as 1.3 x the stalling speed in the landing configuration at maximum certificated landing mass.
I've skipped the rest but you can look it up in the AIP at ENR 1.5.1.
Aircraft categorisation allows the planners of IAP's to draw up appropriate procedures for aircraft of varying speeds. The categorisation is not only essential for the basic IAP itself but for associated procedures like holding patterns, missed approach and circling minima. Each of these will be drawn up with regard to the aircraft's speed, it's turning radius and its probable climb and descent gradients. The rest of the ENR pages are full of diagrams and tables that amplify the text.
As for the aircraft you mention most are likely to be in Cat C. Note that the nominal Vat is defined as being at maximum certified landing mass i.e. MLW so the real weight of the aircraft is not of consequence. The F100 might just creep into Cat B as it was designed for short field capabilities and its big flaps might push down the stall speed into the Cat B area - that is just a guess though.
If we start getting into these deeper waters again I won't refrain from answering the questions. They may get a bit complex though - it depends whether the answer involves other unknown subjects! Bones
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