[jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Procedure

  • From: Gerry Winskill <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
  • To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:28:00 +0100

As in FPI? Or as in follow my leader?

I always think that if I find myself faced with no option but reveal my total procedural ignorance, I can always press the ejector button, the one marked STOP, on the ATOC window....

Gerry Winskill

Tom Smith wrote:

all this is giving me a bad head its back to the multi player flying for me
Tom


    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* Bones <mailto:bones@xxxxxxx>
    *To:* jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2005 6:00 AM
    *Subject:* [jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Procedure

    -----Original Message-----
    From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    [mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
    Sent: 20 October 2005 20:09
    To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Procedure


I'd noted the two different, Cat related, JSY departure courses. Which brings us to the next one; is the CAT aircraft type specific, company set, or what? The most common a/c flown by JHB, in the FPI sessions, seem to be B737, A32*, F100. Are there specific CAT applying to each or would it be a common one for the group covered?

    Gerry Winskill

    I'll have to go to HTML for this email. Sorry for this but it will
    be easier to read..

    How deeply do I dive in here?

    In the past I have had quite a few innocent questions that have
    opened up huge chasms <g> but this one is a bit trickier.

    I could answer it in a few lines but then I see the thin ice that
    it is leading towards - something I have been avoiding for a few
    years. I suppose it is inevitable but FS is getting so good that
    it is requiring more and more understanding of real world
    procedures and FPI amplifies this. I don't think we can avoid the
    thin ice much longer.

    Topics I have covered in the past have been interesting to you (I
    hope) but I think we are now reaching a point where we are going
    to have to go further. I say I have been reluctant to delve into
    this area and this is because FS is supposed to be fun. My
    tutorials have mostly been on subjects like navigation or aircraft
    performance - meaty stuff that is a good and enjoyable read. Going
    onward is pressing us more and more against the doorway marked
    Rules and Regulations and I really do hesitate in pushing you
    through it.

    The trouble is that all real pilots have to do a lot of ground
    school as part of their training.
    The trouble with FS (and FPI) is that you aren't PPL's because you
    all fly around in big tin - you are ATPL standard.
    The trouble is that all the groundwork is missing...
    The trouble is that I've avoided this groundwork as it is not
    exciting, meaty stuff. It's tougher stuff, not the least because
    some of it is dull.

    I guess that we could possibly take it in stages and that we build
    up knowledge slowly.

    Back to aircraft Categories. I'll just include a snippet from the
    docs to show you what that thin ice is covering..



    *1 Holding and Approach to Land Procedures*
    1.1 General

        1.1.1 UK Holding and Instrument Approach Procedures are
        designed using criteria contained in ICAO Document 8168-OPS/611
        (PANS-OPS) VOL II. These criteria include:

            (a) The use of Obstacle Clearance Height (OCH) as the
            basic obstacle clearance element in calculating minima;
            (b) aeroplane categories related to speed, which can
            result in a reduction of Obstacle Clearance Heights for
            the more
            manoeuvrable aeroplanes;
            (c) the definition of a Missed Approach Point for
            non-precision procedures;
            (d) the use of the term 'Decision Height' in relation to
            precision procedures and 'Minimum Descent Height' in
            relation to nonprecision
            and Visual (Circling) procedures.

        1.1.2 The UK Holding and Instrument Approach Procedures appear
        at AD 2.24.

        1.1.3 PANS-OPS stresses the need for flight crew and
        operational personnel to adhere strictly to the published
        procedures in
        order to achieve and maintain an acceptable level of safety in
        operations. In addition, within the UK, procedures contained
        within
        Controlled Airspace are subject to Rule 31(3)(a) of the Rules
        of the Air Regulations 1996 (IFR within Controlled Airspace).

    /Jump here to skip two sections on Visual Manoeuvring and VDF
    letdowns/.

    3.10 Aircraft Categorization

    Aircraft Category A - nominal Vat less than 91 kt IAS
    Aircraft Category B - nominal Vat 91 kt to 120 kt IAS
    Aircraft Category C - nominal Vat 121 kt to 140 kt IAS
    Aircraft Category D - nominal Vat 141 kt to 165 kt IAS
    Aircraft Category E - nominal Vat 166 kt to 210 kt IAS
    Note: Nominal Vat is defined as 1.3 x the stalling speed in the
    landing configuration at maximum certificated landing mass.

    I've skipped the rest but you can look it up in the AIP at ENR 1.5.1.

    Aircraft categorisation allows the planners of IAP's to draw up
    appropriate procedures for aircraft of varying speeds. The
    categorisation is not only essential for the basic IAP itself but
    for associated procedures like holding patterns, missed approach
    and circling minima. Each of these will be drawn up with regard to
    the aircraft's speed, it's turning radius and its probable climb
    and descent gradients. The rest of the ENR pages are full of
    diagrams and tables that amplify the text.

    As for the aircraft you mention most are likely to be in Cat C.
    Note that the nominal Vat is defined as being at maximum certified
    landing mass i.e. MLW so the real weight of the aircraft is not of
    consequence. The F100 might just creep into Cat B as it was
    designed for short field capabilities and its big flaps might push
    down the stall speed into the Cat B area - that is just a guess
    though.

If we start getting into these deeper waters again I won't refrain
from answering the questions. They may get a bit complex though -
it depends whether the answer involves other unknown subjects!
Bones


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