[jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Pocedure

  • From: Gerry Winskill <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
  • To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:31:08 +0100

Thanks for that.
The procedure you describe is the one I thought, but not with any confidence, I should follow. I had before me the IAP pate for Jersey 27. I was mistaken in thinking that the section of the plate from which I got some of the info, eg altitude, was MAP. The intention was however, to do as you say, to fly over the JSY, then leave heading 111, whilst descending to 2000', then to turn left, to intercept the localiser. My request was for confirmation that I should overfly JSY then proceed to the localiser from a left turn seems reasonable. The only response, that I should follow the procedure, didn't either clarify it or increase my confidence. Bear in mind we're all one man crew.
The situation would have been greatly simplified if the response to my request had been "Affirmative" or "that is the procedure", "proceed on 111 for 8 miles, before turning for the ILS", or any elaboration on that theme. It would be easier to learn at the time than have to wait until after the event. That sounds a bit stuffy but isn't meant to be.

Gerry Winskill

Bones wrote:

None were right but I'll have to wind the clock back to explain this. Bear
with me as this is important reading and will take you one step further in

You have all jumped into the real ATC world at the deep end and, as a
result, have somewhat missed out on some basic essentials. The FPI world is
not just an ATC simulation but is more specific - it's an ATC radar
simulation and assumes that all aircraft will be radar guided and vectored.
In the real world not many units have radar and so there is a second method
of controlling which is actually the basic method of ATC and which you don't
really know anything about in depth - although I do mention it from time to
time in these posts.

Procedural control is the basic form of controlling aircraft in the UK. It's
all done by timings and fixed routes and it needs a clear understanding by
both controllers and pilots to work. It's hard work and so it takes up a
large chunk of both pilot and controller training. Radar obviously makes
life a lot easier and so it is accepted as the norm in the real world at
those units it is fitted. Many pilots will fly around every day in a full
radar environment and never have to resort to procedural methods - but it
doesn't mean they don't know them. If a radar fails then ATC and the pilots
will immediately shift over to procedural control, as Anthony did last

You are flying into Ronaldsway from WAL VOR. Normally you would expect to be
put over to EGNS_APP approaching Kelly and expect to be told "this will be
radar vectoring for the ILS runway 26." or similar. ATC will then turn you
right onto a heading of around 345, drop you to 3000ft and, a little later
turn you left again to hit the ILS. Piece of cake for ATC and a doddle for
pilots as they just dial in a couple of headings and leave navigation in the
hands of the controller. They assume that the end result will put them onto
the ILS at the right distance and height for a nice coupled approach. You've
all done it, it's easy and you get to think that flying is a real doddle.

Now go back to the days when you flew around in FS without FPI and had to
plan your own approaches to airports. Harder isn't it? If it wasn't for
FSNav it would still be tricky for many pilots to get from position X to a
10nm final for the ILS on a nice closing heading. You can do this from the
navaids alone but the trouble is that most of you haven't been trained to
develop positional awareness from navaid readings because all the goodies in
FS have taken that work away from you. In real life we don't have FSNav and
so we fall back onto Procedural Control. What is this?

Procedural Control is the basic written procedures for all UK airports
contained in the AIP. They exist for all airports that have a published
approach procedure - whether ILS, NDB or VOR. Technically every pilot should
plan to fly the procedural approach - it's what should be put in the flight
plan - and they should also be prepared to fly it too. Most times they will
not because radar will be available to expedite matters but this is what the
difference is between yourselves and real life pilots. The latter will know
the procedural approach (and can fly it) whereas FS pilots tend to assume
that radar will guide them in.

The approach procedures are all there in the AIP. They are split into
Initial Approach procedures (basically the STAR's) which take you from
airways to the holding facility at the airfield and the Final Approach
procedure which is the specific procedure for a particular runway and
approach aid (such as the ILS approach for 26 or the NDB/DME approach).

Anthony was correct last night in that the STAR ended up at the holding fix
for Jersey - the JSY VOR. With no radar you could have been put in the hold
at the VOR but there was no point as he had no conflicting traffic. He
therefore allowed you to continue with the approach by clearing you for the
"standard procedure". Actually this isn't quite correct as it doesn't
specify which procedure it is but that's beside the point as all I would
have said "Cleared for the ILS procedure for 26." So, you are over the VOR
and have been cleared for the approach procedure. This is where you must
turn to the Instrument Approach plate page.

The IAP is the procedure that takes you from the hold to the runway. You all
know these as they are seen in many places - even in the books that used to
come with the earlier versions of FS (sigh). For Jersey it's quite simple -
you leave the VOR on a track of 111 descending to 2000ft. At 8.5DME you turn
left to intercept the ILS. The IAP also contains the correct Missed Approach
procedure (MAP) so if all goes wrong you should follow this back to the hold
for another try.

In last night's case the ATIS should have given you the landing runway so I
would have automatically got out both the STAR chart and the IAP for 26..


-----Original Message-----
From: jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jhb_airlines-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 20 October 2005 15:15
To: jhb_airlines@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb_airlines] Re: Standard Pocedure

Alastair. I'd got that but when I asked for confirmation that I joined the ILS for 27, after flying overhead JSY, I just got a repeat of Follow Standard Procedure. The STAR, as far as I can see, doesn't route, in detail, from JSY to either rwy, so the absence of vectors, or additional info, left me with the apparent options 1) JSY, then left hand circuit to join 27 ILS, as in the MAP 2) Approach JSY, from the North, then turn downwind, to join 27 ILS from a right hand base leg. Which is what I did. 3) Panic

Gerry Winskill


Alastair wrote:

Hi Jerry



I thought I was doing well until I got the 'go around' from the tower

5 miles short final, and another aircraft on the runway, I don't think
that the controller was aware that there was an aircraft on short
finals, until I called him.  He seemed to be concentrating on the
departing aircraft more than anything else.
After that, absolutely no comms. from the ground controller.

Apart from that it went quite well, apart from having to do a re-boot
on the Gatwick leg.



Gerry Winskill wrote:

Probably a daft question, with an obvious answer, but what's
"Standard Procedure"?

In context, I was not, apparently, visible on the controller's
screen, as I approached Jersey, last night. Since he couldn't see me
and had just one other a/c, Alastair, who was a respectable distance
ahead, he instructed me to follow standard procedure and report when
established on the localiser.
A quick look through all the Jersey plates to hand didn't show up
anything called Standard Procedure, for runway 27. The nearest I
could see was the MAP, which involve a JSY join, followed by left
hand circuit to join the ILS. I asked whether I was right if  I used
this route but just got a repeat of the initial request to follow
standard procedure.
At that point I must admit to capitalising on the fact that the
controller's misfortune was greater than my own. I was visual with
Alastair, whilst the controller couldn't see me. I'd heard Alastair
being given headings for a right hand circuit, so I just followed the
same pattern. The controller knew not where I was until I reported
"localiser established". BUT....this could crop up again. I thought I
had all the required plates to hand but I must have been wrong.
Dear Agony Aunt; what should I have done; apart from keeping my legs

Gerry Winskill

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